ACORN’s friends in Minnesota
September 26th, 2009 – 5:03 PMUnless you’ve been stuck in the Gobi Desert, you’ve read the headlines about the scandal at ACORN — the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. Earlier this month, ACORN staffers in four states were caught giving not-so-sage advice to two journalists, posing as a pimp and a prostitute, on how to defraud the government, cheat on taxes and wangle a mortgage for a home-based brothel.
ACORN was once the darling of Democrats for its support of every item on the left-wing wish list. Suddenly, its employees can hardly find a Democrat who will answer their phone calls. When the U.S. Senate voted on Sept. 14 to cut off federal housing dollars for ACORN, the tally was a lopsided 83-7.
ACORN’s foibles may seem largely irrelevant here in Minnesota, where the organization has so far been able to keep its nose relatively clean.
But ACORN does have a special place in its heart for at least one prominent Minnesota politician. Last year, it showered praise on Al Franken, endorsing his run for the U.S. Senate. Franken returned the esteem: “I’m thrilled and honored to receive this endorsement,” he gushed in a press release. He added that he was “more motivated than ever to work with ACORN.”
I’m not suggesting that Franken had any association with the folks behind ACORN’s recent scandal. Indeed, when the Senate voted to defund ACORN, he got religion and joined the pack.
It’s worth recalling, however, that ACORN is best-known for its massive voter-registration campaigns, which focus relentlessly on getting Democrats elected in targeted states. Here its record is appalling — and goes to the heart of our democratic electoral system.
In October 2008, ACORN announced triumphantly that it had registered about 1.3 million new voters in 18 battleground states, among them Minnesota. A few weeks later, however, the director of Project Vote — an ACORN affiliate — acknowledged to the New York Times that election officials had rejected about 400,000 of those, for reasons including duplicate registrations, incomplete forms and (in the Times’ words) “fraudulent submissions from low-paid field workers trying to please their supervisors.”
Nothing new here. ACORN’s registration drives “routinely produce fraudulent registrations,” according to a staff report released in July 2009 by the ranking Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. The report describes ACORN as “a criminal conspiracy” and details violations ranging from unpaid taxes to a million-dollar embezzlement and cover-up. “To date,” the report says, “nearly 70 ACORN employees have been convicted in 12 states for voter-registration fraud.”
The latest such scandal broke a few weeks ago, when authorities in Florida accused 11 ACORN workers of falsifying information on 888 voter-registration forms.
In May 2009, Nevada’s attorney general charged ACORN and two employees with 39 felonies. Authorities raided ACORN offices after complaints about numerous forms with false addresses and names — including the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys. Forty-eight percent of forms turned in were “clearly fraudulent,” according to a Las Vegas election official. ACORN recruited felons living in transitional housing in Las Vegas to act as canvassers and promised illegal bonuses if they signed up more than 20 new voters a day.
ACORN’s practices can make fraud difficult to detect. For example, “at election offices around the country, ACORN workers are famous for waiting until registration deadline to dump thousands of new documents on overworked clerks — making it harder for them to fully vet the registration forms,” according to the New York Post.
As a result, fraud often only comes to light by chance. Fraud “has been discovered by cursory checks or by accident,” John Samples, an election expert at the Cato Institute, told the Post. “There’s a lot more out there to be discovered.”
Here in Minnesota, ACORN has boasted of playing a major role in the 2008 elections. It claims to have registered 43,000 new voters, which it describes as 75 percent of the state’s new registrations. Franken’s margin of victory in the Senate race was razor-thin: 312 votes out of about 3 million cast. And Minnesota’s laws on proof of voter eligibility are notoriously loose. Did ACORN folks pull some fast ones to help get their favorite son Franken elected — a win that handed Democrats the 60-vote, veto-proof majority that they needed to enact their liberal agenda?
Secretary of State Mark Ritchie assures us that Minnesota’s system of voter verification protects electoral integrity.
But here’s an uncomfortable fact: Ritchie himself was endorsed by the now-notorious ACORN and elected with its help.
157 Responses to "ACORN’s friends in Minnesota"
“when the Senate voted to defund ACORN, he got religion and joined the pack.”
Franken is such a back stabber!. Without ACORN, he never could have stole the election.
A few weeks later, however, the director of Project Vote — an ACORN affiliate — acknowledged to the New York Times that election officials had rejected about 400,000 of those, for reasons including duplicate registrations, incomplete forms and (in the Times’ words) “fraudulent submissions from low-paid field workers trying to please their supervisors.”
A few weeks later, however, the director of Project Vote — an ACORN affiliate — acknowledged to the New York Times that election officials had rejected about 400,000 of those, for reasons including sloppy work by minimum wage temp workers and “fraudulent submissions from low-paid field workers trying to pad their time cards with non-existent or fictitious voters.”
Fixed.
But here’s an uncomfortable fact: Ritchie himself was endorsed by the now-notorious ACORN and elected with its help.
But here’s an uncomfortable fact: If every entity recieving federal funds were held to the same standard Republicans want to hold ACORN to, it would wipe out the entire military industrial complex and half the HMOs.
“But here’s an uncomfortable fact: If every entity recieving federal funds were held to the same standard Republicans want to hold ACORN to, it would wipe out the entire military industrial complex and half the HMOs.”
Sounds like a good start to me.
“Sounds like a good start to me.”
I’d agree.
See, there’s fraud and intimidation going on from both sides.
Check out the Lincoln Strategy Group sometime …
Ya know what svcks? There’s nobody around who’s sticking up for the folks in the middle of this fiasco …
nobody showing us how both sides of radical are running the country and feeding us whatever they feel will push their agenda.
I really wish there was a crew out there showing the hypocrisy of both sides.
tluck, our defense industry is in existence to keep America safe, while ACORN’s goal is to get soci@lists put in office.
“I really wish there was a crew out there showing the hypocrisy of both sides.”
Some besides a liberal pretending to be a moderate anyway.
“tluck, our defense industry is in existence to keep America safe, while ACORN’s goal is to get soci@lists put in office. ”
So it’s okay for one side and not the other?
Uh huh ..
that’s very unpatriotic D2.
“Some besides a liberal pretending to be a moderate anyway. ”
There’s someone doing that?
Or is it just your slanted opinion .. which is pretty much if someone doesn’t agree with your nonsense then they’re liberal.
However, you’re still not a patriot.
“Check out the Lincoln Strategy Group sometime …”
Minor league.
But who knew being a magician could be so profitable.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/mar2008/db20080314_121054.htm
“There’s someone doing that?”
Greg, you’re the most liberal “moderate” on the planet.
“Check out the Lincoln Strategy Group sometime …”
Minor League.
But it’s amazing that being a magician has become so profitable.
www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/mar2008/db20080314_121054.htm
“Greg, you’re the most liberal “moderate” on the planet. ”
Considering you’re the source ..
it shouldn’t even be considered.
“But it’s amazing that being a magician has become so profitable.”
HA! No doubt .. but ya gotta admit ..
he’s a heckuva magician.
I wish all this crap would come ot a halt.
“it shouldn’t even be considered.”
Yes it should Greg. You’re very liberal with a Patriot rating of only 30% and dropping rapidly.
“Yes it should Greg. You’re very liberal with a Patriot rating of only 30% and dropping rapidly. ”
So ..
that would put you at about ..
-300%?
“Let’s make sure that’s the case by requiring people to show a photo ID at the polls, no exeptions.”
Adlib says:
What would the Founding Fathers have to say about that requirement D2?
Why not make sure every voter can score at least a passing grade on the immigration and naturalization test for citizenship before they can vote? True alot of citizens wouldn’t get to vote, but at least non-citizens would be unlikely to pass the test either.
*******************************
Good point adlib! Having the requirement of passing an IQ test in order to vote would have kept most Obama supporters from voting.
Check this out:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU
Liberal Greg says:
“You mean Coleman should’ve lost by more?”
Nope. Coleman actually won the election. ACORN with their shenanagan’s got Franken close enough to force a phoney recount, and ACORN goon Mark Ritchie took it from there.
Proof that God loves us and want’s us to be happy.
O.T says:
to cash a welfare check= need id
to cash ss check= need id
to rent a movie= need id
get a hotel room= need id
buy beer= need id
get across border= need passport/id
cash a personal check= need id
to vote= no id neccessary
makes sense. I really would love to see a actual factual study of how many people really do not have a id. I would wager it to be less than .001% of the state. If it got us valid elections, I would personally buy those 50 a id for them.
********************************
Great points O.T.!
“There are valid voters without photo ID issued by the state.”
I’m not arguing that. What I’m saying is that people should be required to prove they are who they say they are at the polls. It’s far too important of a process to allow the possibility of non-citizens or illegal aliens decide the outcome of close elections, which is probably what happened in the Coleman/Franken race.
If someone is on a fixed income and “can’t afford” an ID, I don’t have a problem with them getting one for free. Let’s just eliminate the excuses for not having a photo ID, and start doing this the accurate way.
“Proof that God loves us and want’s us to be happy. ”
i thought that was beer ??
“Nope. Coleman actually won the election. ACORN with their shenanagan’s got Franken close enough to force a phoney recount, and ACORN goon Mark Ritchie took it from there. ”
Ya know, I’ve never seen anyone post the numbers of how those people that ACORN registered voted.
Granted, there’s a good chance the majority voted democrat .. but did all of them?
D2 .. you’re still not a patriot and what’s worse is you don’t even attempt to account for all the pieces of a story.
Again, I only have half a functioning brain and can see this?
What’s your excuse?
“i thought that was beer ?? ”
i thought that too ….
or was it sex?
“i thought that was beer ??”
That too.
“Granted, there’s a good chance the majority voted democrat .. but did all of them?”
YES
YES
And yet with all his vast powers of prognostication, he fails to make it big at the track.
“or was it sex? ”
at first, i was going to agree with you. then i started thinking of all the misery, throughout the ages due to sex. then i started thinking that god could/should have tweaked mankind’s software to make him less neurotic about it. then i decided i didnt really have a firm opinion as to whether the gift of sex was proof that god loves us.
“whether the gift of sex was proof that god loves us. ”
There is that.
I guess it works for me since I don’t partake in the other.
“YES ”
Unpatriotic D2 … pleas provide proof.
oh and about kk’s article … hmm , let me see, open the playbook. page 2. “what to do when challenged or attacked … oh here it is
ITS RACISM !!!!!!!!!
“pleas provide proof”
That’s the whole point Greg! We have no idea who was voting with our rediculous liberal voting system (the most liberal in the country), but we do know for a fact that ACORN is an extremely corrupt group of democrat/soci@list supporters, and it’s certain that Franken never would have been able to steal the election without their “help”.
No wonder Keith Hakim Ellison (DFL) wants to go as far as to ban using ID’s at the polls. He LOVES democrat vote fraud!
gotaa love the nanny staters, who think they are smarter than us and have to protectec us from ourselves. top story on slashdot, how 40 states have or are busy writing laws taxing unhealthy food and beverages …. have 3 little words for all of the presumptious, pompous psuedo parents …. F YOU ALL.
“No wonder Keith Hakim Ellison (DFL) wants to go as far as to ban using ID’s at the polls. He LOVES democrat vote fraud! ”
kinda funny , in a sad way. there is no valid argument as to why a person shouldnt have to have an id. if a person cant figure out how to get one, then they probably arent qualified to vote in the first place. i, for one, dont neccessarily believe in “getting out the vote” i dont find it too appealing to herd a bunch of cattle to the polling places and have them partake in a system and policies they havent the first clue about. we probably should go back to a poll tax and/or taking a test and demonstrate the ability to speak and read english and show a basic 3rd grade knowledge of our countries institutions, before one is allowed to vote.
some of the founding fathers were fearful of the tyranny of an ignorant mob when the representative republic we live under was being formed.
farewell for now fellow bloggers. i must begin to prepare myself to view a battle of epic proportions, involving the warriors of philadelphia, pitted against the invading hoard of chiefs from kansas city, to occur in a battlefield named lincoln financial field. may god bless the valiant defenders.
“i dont find it too appealing to herd a bunch of cattle to the polling places and have them partake in a system and policies they havent the first clue about”
Good point Steve. An example would be if a large group of people got together to elect someone based on skin color, without regard to his radical soci@list views and associations.
Today’s Strib Headine:
“Obama’s support declines sharply!”
I’m glad people are starting to wake up and realize that electing someone based on skin color was a very bad idea. We’re now paying for that mistake.
The drop in support is very good news for American however.
Thanks for clearly laying out the fraud by ACORN which is more widespread than believed by the majority of Americans. Of course the MSM believes its a ‘cable news story’ as Gibson from ABC explained. Outrageous. According to most media outlets and public officials, fraud is only quite serious if conservatives are suspects… Thanks KK!!
“have 3 little words for all of the presumptious, pompous psuedo parents …. F YOU ALL.”
Right on ..
“That’s the whole point Greg! We have no idea who was voting with our rediculous liberal voting system (the most liberal in the country), but we do know for a fact that ACORN is an extremely corrupt group of democrat/soci@list supporters, and it’s certain that Franken never would have been able to steal the election without their “help”.
No wonder Keith Hakim Ellison (DFL) wants to go as far as to ban using ID’s at the polls. He LOVES democrat vote fraud! ”
In other words, you have no proof.
See, this is the problem. A whole lotta goofballs making a whole lot of assumptions ..
pay attention to the first 3 letters of that word assumption.
That kind of misinformation activity is very unpatriotic.
Hi, all,
At the risk of being branded an elitist, racist, or other type of “evil” person, I have to say I agree (except for the poll tax) with stevek on this: “we probably should go back to a poll tax and/or taking a test and demonstrate the ability to speak and read english and show a basic 3rd grade knowledge of our countries institutions, before one is allowed to vote. . . . some of the founding fathers were fearful of the tyranny of an ignorant mob when the representative republic we live under was being formed.”
And I’m not so sure I like instant runoff voting either. Suppose four people are running for one seat (e.g., Mpls City Council Ward 4, and also suppose Barb Johnson gets 40% of the first choice votes, Troy Parker 30%, Marcus Harkus 20%, and Grant Cermak 10%. Further suppose Grant Cermak gets 90% of the second choice votes (highly unlikely, I admit, but not impossible). What happens then?
Hi again, all,
Warning: bad pun alert!
A box full of acorns is a nut case.
Hoo ha!
“A box full of acorns is a nut case.”
From little ACORN’s grow big Soci@lists.
“In other words, you have no proof.”
Greg, what proof do you have that ACORN hasn’t been successful in Minnesota with vote fraud? Wouldn’t it be better to make sure all of the votes are legal than allow an election be determined by foreigners? My guess is that a lot of illegal aliens were able to vote in Minnesota, of course for democrats who are pushing for amnesty.
As O.T. pointed out, the number of people wanting to vote who don’t have a picture ID is probably extremely low, especially in today’s society where you can’t do much of anything without an ID, so why don’t we work on making sure everyone who wants to vote get’s a free ID if they need one, and require then to present it at the polls.
D2 ..
Again, you’re avoiding because you have no proof.
Just a whole lot of assumptions based upon your chosen ideology.
If you’re going to make a statement that you’re presenting as a fact, then have the proof or at the very least just fess up and admit it’s not true….
FC ..
I don’t think what you’re suggesting is racist at all. About the only thing it ‘might’ be considered is discriminatory. It makes sense what you’re suggesting but because we’re a democracy …
‘can’ it make sense?
Now that just made me want to go out and toss a ball around ..
Favre is all about the drama and that’s okay.
Yep! I’m glad the Vike’s finally have a decent quarterback. I don’t think Travarius or the other backup could have pulled this one off.
“Just a whole lot of assumptions based upon your chosen ideology.”
Hey, if the Republican’s had a taxpayer funded vote fraud group helping to get their people into office, you would be screaming at the top off your lungs Greg.
Cmon’ show us what a moderate you are and provide a common sense neutral reply Greg!
“Hey, if the Republican’s had a taxpayer funded vote fraud group helping to get their people into office, you would be screaming at the top off your lungs Greg.”
Nah.
I look at it for what it is. How many votes did the work of ACORN really produce? How many of them voted democratic and how many voted Republican?
That is a common sense response D2 and NOBODY can provide those numbers can they.
And you still haven’t answered the original question.
“Nah.”
So much for a non-liberal neutral reply…..
“How many votes did the work of ACORN really produce?”
No tellin’. Our liberal voting policy doesn’t permit us to know this, by design.
“How many of them voted democratic and how many voted Republican?”
100% of them voted liberal democrat/ soci@list, unless they were so stupid that they got their marching orders screwed up.
Liberal Greg, why are you so afraid of allowing only LEGAL voters to vote?
“100% of them voted liberal democrat/ soci@list, unless they were so stupid that they got their marching orders screwed up.”
Again, prove it or at least .. for once .. admit that you’re making something up ..
again.
This is why you hold no credibility D2 and why you are …
unpatriotic.
Greg, here’s a hint. ACORN is a corrupt taxpayer funded group which is in the business of getting LIBERALS/SOCI@LISTS into office. They might occasionally push for a liberal RINO like Olympia Snow, but basically they persued people into voting for the most leftist/soci@list person available.
“Greg, here’s a hint. ACORN is a corrupt taxpayer funded group which is in the business of getting LIBERALS/SOCI@LISTS into office. They might occasionally push for a liberal RINO like Olympia Snow, but basically they persued people into voting for the most leftist/soci@list person available. ”
So that’s the definition of neutral …
according to D2 ..
who is once again demonstrating why he could never possibly be ..
a patriot.
D2 .. you’re insane.
“D2 .. you’re insane.”
Greg, I’ll bet that most American’s would agree with me that we need to make sure people who are who they say they are at the polls.
We check ID’s for everything else. Why do you think the process of electing our leaders is less important Greg?
Also, I still say that Franken’s dismal 44% approval rating is more evidence that Minnesotan’s didn’t truely want him in office.
“Greg, I’ll bet that most American’s would agree with me that we need to make sure people who are who they say they are at the polls.”
Yes.
“We check ID’s for everything else. Why do you think the process of electing our leaders is less important Greg? ”
Did I say that?
“Also, I still say that Franken’s dismal 44% approval rating is more evidence that Minnesotan’s didn’t truely want him in office. ”
But he had more votes.
Now ..
How do you know that every person that ACORN registered voted democratic?
“Did I say that?”
Do you then agree that leftist Keith Hakim Ellison (DFL) is wrong in his push to ban the use of ID’s at the polls?
“But he had more votes.”
Coleman had more votes before the phoney ACORN led “recount” Greg. Also, without ACORN, Franken wouldn’t have gotten close enough for a “recount” in the first place. Franken can also thank first time idiot Obama voters for him riding the Obama wave of liberals hell bent on putting a half black man in office and voting “D” across the board.
Does his 44% approval rating make sense now Greg?
Hi Katherine!
Great topic on ACORN!
Can you reassure us again that there are many more readers of the comments than commentors?
Thanks in advance for your efforts!
I don’t think Travarius or the other backup could have pulled this one off.
Haha! D2’s one of those guys who pronounces it “Travarius”… It’s Tarvaris…
“Do you then agree that leftist Keith Hakim Ellison (DFL) is wrong in his push to ban the use of ID’s at the polls?”
That has nothing to do with the question. You’re twisting in the wind D2 ..
again.
“Coleman had more votes before the phoney ACORN led “recount” Greg. ”
I have only half a functioning brain and know that it’s state law that a recount be conducted when the vote count is within a certain margin.
The vote count was within that margin correct?
This is why people call you a moron.
“Also, without ACORN, Franken wouldn’t have gotten close enough for a “recount” in the first place.”
And you know this how? Again, you have absolutely NO idea if that’s factual yet you present it as a fact.
That is simply lying.
A liar is not patriotic.
“Franken can also thank first time idiot Obama voters for him riding the Obama wave of liberals hell bent on putting a half black man in office and voting “D” across the board.”
Explain why you consider youself so much more intelligent than anyone who voted for someone you didn’t?
I mean seriously, it’s almost daily that you’re caught on this blog spreading misinformation which is more appropriately called a flat-out lie yet you consider yourself more intelligent than those folks that voted D vs. R?
Lastly,
you are not ..
a patriot.
“Haha! D2’s one of those guys who pronounces it “Travarius”… It’s Tarvaris…”
Thanks for the correction DJ!
Anyway, I haven’t been excited about the Vike’s like this in years, and I’m glad Chilly was able to make Favre a Viking!
“That has nothing to do with the question.”
If you weren’t such a leftist Greg, you would have sais YES.
The “flawed” vote count was within that margin correct?
Yes.
“I have only half a functioning brain”
A liberal friend of mine got into a fight in a bar up North (Isle. MN), got the crap beat out of him, and had to be airlifted to North Memorial. I really hope he is able to recover and spew liberal nonsense again like you do Greg.
Some people are so blind to an ideology that they can’t even see how foolish they sound ..
and why people refer to them as a moron or an idiot.
Liberal Greg,
You are NOT a moderate!
Hey, if the Republican’s had a taxpayer funded vote fraud group helping to get their people into office,
They do, they’re called ES&S and Diebold. And there’s also Choice Point Inc.
First, the purges. In the months leading up to the November 2000 presidential election, Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, in coordination with Governor Jeb Bush, ordered local election supervisors to purge 57,700 voters from the registries, supposedly ex-cons not allowed to vote in Florida. At least 90.2 percent of those on this “scrub” list, targeted to lose their civil rights, are innocent.
The difference is that Democratic groups try to get more people registered to vote, while Republican groups try to disenfranchise as many voters as possible.
Who’s the patriot?
“Who’s the patriot?” was mine.
Before Deacon jumps in looking for my link, google Choice Point, Inc, Florida 2000.
“You are NOT a moderate! ”
D2 .. you wouldn’t know what a moderate is…
just as you’re not a patriot and don’t know what one is.
Yes to Poll tax
Yes to intelligence test
Yes to voter photo ID
Yes to revoking ACORNS MN charter
Yes to more Katherine Kersten columns
Every organization needs a YES man…don’t you agree ?….just say YES
…voting “D” across the board.
d2, have you ever voted “across the board?” I’m guessing you’ve voted “R” across the board more than once.
Perhaps it would be instructive to remember the history American disenfranchisement. At our nation’s inception, only white male property holders had the right to vote. When blacks were given the right to vote, poll taxes and literacy tests were put in their way. Downtown Dan reminded us of the Florida debacle of 2000.
The sad fact is that the conservative party — it used to be Democrats, now it’s Republicans — has always tried to keep new voters away from the polls because as a group, new voters tend not to vote conservative.
Disenfranchisement is the antithesis of representative democracy. If both parties were truly concerned about democracy, and not only about politics, they would both work toward 100% registration and participation of all legally eligible voters, no matter how those voters were likely to vote.
If someone doesn’t have a valid ID when s/he shows up at the polls, has his/her right to vote somehow been forfeited? If you move into a house in a new district two weeks before an election, in which district should you vote? Should both districts be able to turn you away — one because you no longer live there, the other because you haven’t lived there long enough? We can all think of other scenarios where a person’s right to vote could be questioned.
In a perfect world, everyone who has the right to vote would have the opportunity to do so, and no one ineligible to vote would get away with voting.
Do we live in a perfect world?
Hardly.
So we must try to find the best balance we can. How do we ensure every citizen is able to exercise his or her right — and it is a right, not a mere privilege — to vote while keeping voter fraud to a minimum?
Perhaps we look at the incidence of disenfranchisement vs. the incidence of voter fraud, and err on the side of the greater problem.
As already stated, our nation has a long and well-documented history of disenfranchisement.
I don’t think that I could argue that our nation has a long and well-documented history of actual voter fraud.
So it seems that disenfranchisement is a much bigger problem than voter fraud. So we err on the side of keeping disenfranchisement to a minimum, even if that means voter fraud will become a small bit more prevalent. As long as voter fraud is kept to a minimum — and until someone can show me proof that we have a serious voter fraud problem that is skewing elections, I believe we are keeping it to an acceptable minimum — erring on the side of not needlessly disenfranchising people is the prudent course of action.
It is also the course of action that best embodies the concept of representative democracy. In short, a patriotic solution.
d2, before you start hemming and hawing about believing in democracy but with an endless stream of conditions, exceptions and “but, buts…”, show me the evidence that actual voter fraud is a greater problem than voter disenfranchisement. Fail to do that, and the accusation that you are not a patriot will be bolstered by even more evidence.
“kinda funny , in a sad way. there is no valid argument as to why a person shouldnt have to have an id.”
To vote in MN you need to be vouched for by a registered voter at that polling place. If that voter vouches for you falsely, they are breaking the law big time. I know I wouldn’t take that risk for the sake of stuffing one more vote in the ballot box. especially not with all the zealots out to catch voter fraud in progress.
If you think people should need to provide an id, it shouldn’t cost anything to get one.
Otherwise, mandating an id is a de facto poll tax. Poll taxes are unconstitutional because they are a means to disenfranchise the poor.
Oh, wait, steve thinks we SHOULD have a poll tax.
steve’s not much of a patriot either, methinks.
Looks like the trolls are out in force tonight.
On the supposed voter fraud issue, ACORN is legally bound to check every registration that it gets. This is how the “Mickey Mouse” registrations were found. ACORN found them themselves. Therefore, it is not voter fraud. It is just bad voter registration.
As for actual voter fraud, why don’t we look into Katherine’s friends in Ohio in 2004 or in Florida in 2000. President Bush never won a plurality of the votes (that’s over 50% for the trolls) in either election for the entire country. Ohio put him over the top to get the electoral votes. Diebold and their friends made sure of that. As for 2000, remember the conservative mobs in Florida?
It’s funny, the only way the conservatives try to win is with the old sleight of hand tricks, not with any real issues. Notice how she quotes the libertarian Cato Institute and the Rupert Murdock-owned New York Post (which has a pathetically bad record of being inaccurate).
I am sure that the next diversion will be to challenge the Senate vote again.
All the while, they will try to see if people don’t remember the wrath that the conservatives put upon us: Two nasty wars (one of which was unnecessary), no oversight of investment banks (which nearly brought us a depression) and spending worse than anything President Obama has proposed (Medicare Drug Prescription Program Bailout anyone?).
They don’t want to talk about the truth, because they can’t handle the truth.
“They don’t want to talk about the truth, because they can’t handle the truth.”
Great, another “clear thinker” with an agenda.
“It’s funny, the only way the conservatives try to win is with the old sleight of hand tricks, not with any real issues.”
That’s the line that confirmed it.
I’m only going to comment on one line of Katherine’s screed, because, well, when people start in on ACORN I’ve found it’s best to ignore them. Much like the people who think the moon landing was faked.
I’ll rely on EBF to give a blow by blow accounting of all the different ways Katherine omits details or practices guilt by association in her zeal to use ACORN as a brush with which to tar her enemies.
But this line slayed me:
“Earlier this month, ACORN staffers in four states were caught giving not-so-sage advice to two journalists, posing as a pimp and a prostitute, on how to defraud the government…”
To be sure, whatshisname with his pimp and ho video scored a gotchya, Michael Mooretyle, and his successful future career as a Candid Camera-type expose gotchya-getter is now a forgone conclusion.
But to call him a journalist? That would be almost like, like, as if Katherine referred to herself as a journalist. I have a semantic bone to pick with that.
whoops, meant to say Michael Moore-style. typo.
“I have only half a functioning brain”
Greg,
What happened to the other half?
“Oh, wait, steve thinks we SHOULD have a poll tax.
steve’s not much of a patriot either, methinks. ”
you forgot i also would push for an intelligence, history and current event test. i dont care about getting every citizen out to vote. i care about getting informed citizens out to vote.
again, if someone cant mange to get an id , then they probably arent responsible enough to make decisions that influence the future of our nation. even if they were given away free, the same old slackers would still have a myriad of excuses as to why its discriminatory to require an id.
i would hope those too lazy and apathetic to take some measure of effort as to qualify to vote would just stay away from the polls. id rather them not vote.
“What happened to the other half? ”
stroke
“you forgot i also would push for an intelligence, history and current event test. i dont care about getting every citizen out to vote. i care about getting informed citizens out to vote.”
maybe we should also consider that if you’re not a veteran your vote only counts for half of a veterans?
“i would hope those too lazy and apathetic to take some measure of effort as to qualify to vote would just stay away from the polls. id rather them not vote.”
I know some folks that are far from lazy or apathetic that have no ID. They’ve done things for this country many haven’t …
I think they deserve to vote.
Not to mention the legal mess.
You’re suggestion makes voting elitist in some respect …
do we really want that?
stroke
I’m sorry to hear that. When did that happen?
The Constitution says our govt is of the people by the people for the people.
It doesn’t say of the smart people by the smart people…
It doesn’t say of the rich people by the rich people…
I think it would be great if only the informed citizens came out to vote but who would get to be the gatekeeper? how do you define informed?
Sadly, I suspect if steve had his druthers our govt would be of the a-holes, by the a-holes, for the…
“even if [id’s] were given away free, the same old slackers would still have a myriad of excuses as to why its discriminatory to require an id.”
The straw slackers in your mind might at that, but if id’s were free I for one wouldn’t have a problem with them being required to vote. Because then they wouldn’t represent a poll tax.
“I’m sorry to hear that. When did that happen? ”
First one was a couple months ago. I’ve had a few small ones since.
Docs are trying to figure out how to fix what got broke.
“I know some folks that are far from lazy or apathetic that have no ID. They’ve done things for this country many haven’t …
I think they deserve to vote.
Not to mention the legal mess.
You’re suggestion makes voting elitist in some respect …
do we really want that? ”
You may know some people that are highly engaged but do not have id, but i have to believe the number of people like that are miniscule. i dont care if the id’s are free, but there has to be an efficient and easy way to identify who an individual is and if they are eligible, when they show up at the voting booth.
i dont know if i would characterize it as being elitist. id like to think of it more as competence to vote.
i swear most of the people who are interviewed during exit polls remind me of president comacho’s cabinet in idiocracy.
“Sadly, I suspect if steve had his druthers our govt would be of the a-holes, by the a-holes, for the…”
aww shucks, i love you to dar
“The straw slackers in your mind might at that”
LOLOL you dismiss the idea there would still be people complaining it was too hard and inconvenient and discriminatory ?!?!?!?! methinks you dont pay enough attention to human nature
I’m not sure what idiocracy is. I do know that there are uninformed people voting and probably some that shouldn’t be.
It would be nice to have a good way to make sure only people who should be voting are voting and excluding those who shouldn’t…
but how far do we go before we screw it up even more?
vote for obama, he has electrolytes
“I’m not sure what idiocracy is.”
“idiocracy” is a hilarious movie starring luke wilson as an “average joe” who partakes in a hibernation experiment. he wakes up far into the future and becomes the smartest man alive in relation to everyone else. its pretty funny
i’ve been told i saw it by my most excellent wife ..
she said I laughed .. alot.
” you dismiss the idea there would still be people complaining it was too hard and inconvenient and discriminatory ?!?!?!?! ”
OK OK someone will still have a gripe I’m sure, if there’s any sort of additional hoop they have to jump through. Some people will kvetch about anything. But they wouldn’t have a solid constitutional argument now would they?
The US Constitution says you can’t have a poll tax. It doesn’t say you can’t have controls in place to test the veracity of a voter’s identity. Rather than a photo id some sort of biometric check would probably be preferable, but implementation would be pretty hard logistically. The Big Brother aspect of that might freak some people out, too.
An IQ test would be patently unconstitutional. Something about the 14th Amendment.
i am truly sorry to hear of your physical challenges of late. i assumed your comments were just a running joke. i hope you heal quickly and well.
“you forgot i also would push for an intelligence, history and current event test. i dont care about getting every citizen out to vote.”
Id add an @55hole test. Sorry Stevek, you dont get to vote.
Hey, good luck getting your systems back online, Greg. I had inferred from some of your comments that you were up against what you’re up against. Sorry to know I was correct though.
“An IQ test would be patently unconstitutional. Something about the 14th Amendment. ”
yeah, dont think i would want to go the biometric route either. and no, i dont think an iq test is in order either. what i would like to see, although the logistics would make it unfeasable, would be a simple civics test, like
example
1)who was the first president?
ans: john wayne
“sorry, try again next time, next”
there is little sorrier than having groups of people trained how to choose a column, by their “get out the vote” handlers , every four years or so.
“Id add an @55hole test. Sorry Stevek, you dont get to vote. ”
aww c’mon crimson tide. if i had feelings, you’d be hurting them about now.
“aww c’mon crimson tide. if i had feelings, you’d be hurting them about now.”
I have to respect that. Clearly you’re in touch with your inner demons.
thanks you guys.
i’m lucky. gotta hottie nurse for a wife .. always maxed out my benies so i’ve got funds .. and i’m insured.
Mr. Deacon, I hope when I made my remarks the other day, you did not consider them to be an attack on you. They were not. As you know, I hate the banking industry, but I don’t feel that way about you. I love you, brother. You are a very important blog friend to me. You are someone I have learned much from. I hold you in the highest regard. I have been troubled since I wrote those remarks, so I needed to tell you.
Mr. dubble_a_ron,
I read your response to my health care post, and I thank you for it.
I can’t agree with your equating mandatory auto insurance to mandatory health insurance. If I cause a car crash, I potentially injure another party. If I get sick, there is no other injured party. Unless you have a Marxist (Karl not Groucho) mindset of some kind, and the state or “the people” are deemed to be injured.
I also oppose mandatory auto insurance, but that’s an entirely different issue and a different argument.
“First one was a couple months ago.”
DUDE!! Take care, will keep you in our thoughts and prayers.
The good news is that even with half a brain, you still have 150% more brain power than a certain someone.
I can’t agree with your equating mandatory auto insurance to mandatory health insurance.
Nor can I. People can choose not to drive; they can’t choose whether or not they get sick. Under the mandatory health insurance proposal, everyone would be required to purchase health insurance. In any case, the comparison is not valid.
I also oppose mandatory auto insurance, but that’s an entirely different issue and a different argument.
With nearly every driver on the road having their own personal “careen day,” bullying others with their personal weapons of mass destruction, and doing everything behind the wheel except paying attention to their driving, I’m very happy that all drivers must carry auto insurance. It helps protect me when one of them crashes into me.
One of them crashed into Hubby a little over a year ago. No injuries, just some paint scraped off of Hubby’s door, and the driver-side mirror was knocked off. But it was enough to total the vehicle. We told the insurance company we’d keep the car, so after they deducted the salvage amount they expected to get, they sent us a nice check. Hubby got the mirror fixed, but the rest was cosmetic. Since there was no damage whatsoever to the engine, there was no reason to buy another car and have to start making car payments again — a topic for which I could rant for hours, but I have other things to which I must attend now.
A pleasant evening to all….
The good news is that even with half a brain, you still have 150% more brain power than a certain someone.
I think you left off a few zeros there, tluck!
Greg, I’m sorry to learn of your strokes and wish you a speedy recovery. I hope the doctors figure out soon what is happening. Keep us posted.
“I think you left off a few zeros there, tluck!”
Could be. I’m “scientifically illiterate”.
“I can’t agree with your equating mandatory auto insurance to mandatory health insurance.”
“Nor can I. People can choose not to drive; they can’t choose whether or not they get sick.”
That argument has occurred to me already.
You might choose not to drive, but you can’t necessarily choose not to be hit by someone. Human nature being what it is, there are plenty of people who are willing to drive and drive stupidly and would not have funds to make reparations for damage caused by their own negligence if they weren’t compelled to have insurance.
No one chooses to get sick. Directly. But I guarantee right now as I type this, someone without insurance is showing up at an emergency room somewhere. Their emergency may be the result of bad luck or it may be the result of a lifetime of poor choices they’ve made. Most people will not choose to die just because they aren’t sure how they are going to pay for their life-saving treatment. They just say, save me, start the tab and we’ll worry about it later. Likewise the doctors are under the moral obligation to say, save them, start the tab and worry about who pays for it later. Who picks up the tab? If the uninsured person doesn’t have a vast reserve of cash, a combination of government (supported by taxpayers) and the insured patrons of the same hospital (most of whom are the same taxpayers) do. It’s not a perfect equivalence to auto insurance, but ya’ll have yet to convince me that the practical reason for mandating everyone get some sort of health insurance is not pretty much the same as mandating car insurance for all drivers. None of us is in complete control of the potential liability we each may incur on the system. Unless we’re all willing to override our survival instinct.
I really do believe the net result of mandatory insurance for all (even if some still have to be subsidized) will result in lower insurance costs for those who currently are insured, and for their employers. But I’ll readily admit I’m guesstimating.
im sure we could lower health care costs if we were all forced to eat some type of highly nutricious government required gruel, and we were all forced to wear govt required padding that resembles a hockey goalie, only allowed to be removed for showers, sleep and sex. and we were all required to have implanted gps units , that only allowed us to go to government mandated”safe places”.
but at what cost ?? where do we stop the goverment and corporate intrusions into our lives ??? when do we remember that quaint notion that government works for us ?? and its we the people who have all rights not specifically given to the govt via the constitution? and when do we start to smarten up and breakup these huge conglomerates that are supposedly to big to fail. when do we dissolve the power of these corporations that are pitting the american worker against slave laborers in communist countries and third world peasants ??
the whole notion of government mandated health insurance is obscene.
im sure we could lower health care costs if we were all forced to eat some type of highly nutricious government required gruel,
At which point I’ll be moving to New Orleans and becoming part of the secession movement.
and we were all forced to wear govt required padding that resembles a hockey goalie, only allowed to be removed for showers, sleep and sex.
You must lead a dull sex life if you never require padding.
that’s right steve, just let it all out.
All that pent-up anger. Don’t hold back. Just vent. You’ll feel better.
You can worry about focus later.
“All that pent-up anger.”
i hadnt realized it was pent up
“You must lead a dull sex life if you never require padding. ”
guess thats what happens when you get old and have been married for ~20yrs.
Thanks again .. it’s good to know I haven’t lost everything in the noggin’.
I have found out that we do have a healthcare crisis first hand. Looking at the cost over the past few months is insane. I cannot imagine not having any kind of health insurance or some kind of insurance with a very high deductible (I wiped mine out in about 48 hours).
Personally I’d like to see some kind of public option if only for people to not have to lose everything because they couldn’t afford insurance. I do believe there is some room for tort reform but we also need to leave room for those times when compensation is necessary.
I wish our great minds in Washington could grow up and find something to fill the void …
maybe it is time for some kind of turn-about where the majority in the middle speaks up and stops the morons of the hard right and left make all the decisions ..
it’s getting old.
“Personally I’d like to see some kind of public option if only for people to not have to lose everything because they couldn’t afford insurance.”
That’s what I’m driving at.
I’m not sure everyone realize that when their neighbor goes bankrupt it affects them too. When people flame out financially it’s a drag on the economy. Try getting your house refinanced if you need a high appraised value and your neighbor (or his bank) just sold his house short due to foreclosure.
A good deal of personal bankruptcies have a health crisis in the mix…
There’s too much of the ‘it doesn’t affect me’ when it comes to people losing everything from a health issue ..
I have found out that we do have a healthcare crisis first hand.
535 people in Washington and collectively, they don’t have what amounts to half a brain.
Looking at the cost over the past few months is insane. I cannot imagine not having any kind of health insurance or some kind of insurance with a very high deductible (I wiped mine out in about 48 hours).
Health savings accounts are the GOP talking point, however, I fail to see how the 40K per year working stiff with
a 20,000 deductable can save enough to avoid bankruptcy, if hit with one illness requiring a week in the hospital.
I was lucky I have a $500 deductable. The lube on Nurse Ratchid’s catheter probably cost more than that.
“Health savings accounts are the GOP talking point”
i was against the hsa when my company went to it. after some consideration its not that bad. my employer contribs $400/month and i do have a 10k deductible. with a little luck , i can save up that 10k or more and not have to pay anything. prescription plan is pretty non-existent nor are office visits much cheaper than having no plan at all , but you can use the hsa money for any valid medical issue, including the dentist. so my experience, not great, not as bad as i first thought. plus i am covered if anything catastrphic happens to my family or me.
“Health savings accounts are the GOP talking point, however, I fail to see how the 40K per year working stiff with
a 20,000 deductable can save enough to avoid bankruptcy, if hit with one illness requiring a week in the hospital.”
See, that’s just the point. When you look at the economy right now how in the heck can they expect that to be realistic? At the same time, giving a handout is not the solution either.
“I was lucky I have a $500 deductable. The lube on Nurse Ratchid’s catheter probably cost more than that. ”
Mine was 2500 but I also had supplemental that helped for some of that.
ALWAYS max out those benefits. My old man told me that and it’s one of the only things I ever listened to ..
stevek ..
if something happens that turns out catstrophic (and I hope it doesn’t) ..
prescriptions alone could eat that monthly allotment real quick along with regular doc visits.
you’ll also need to watch how they count that deductible ..
my wife is still working that one out…
you’re lucky you’re covered, but i know many families that couldn’t afford that 400/month who live very responsibly…
those are the people we need to worry about ..
and should.
prescriptions alone could eat that monthly allotment real quick along with regular doc visits.
My prescriptions are $1500 per month before insurance, and I see one doctor once a month, two doctors every three months, and two more every six months.
With your brain and my heart, the census should count us as one person.
“With your brain and my heart, the census should count us as one person. ”
HA!
But you’re so right. The prescriptions are insane.
Soooo liberal greg,
How long has your lady been blogging for you? You’ve gotten,off and on, auwfully feminine in the past few weeks. I think it is she that has been takeing on, and winning, the arhhguments with D2 lately.
“That would be one person and a toothpick.”
You callin me a boy? A man with a 26 inch…….color TV?
Dickmelon is a complement.
“Soooo liberal greg,
How long has your lady been blogging for you? You’ve gotten,off and on, auwfully feminine in the past few weeks. I think it is she that has been takeing on, and winning, the arhhguments with D2 lately. ”
Okay … I’ll admit she lends a hand…
but not beating the unpatriotic D2 ..
he does that all on his own.
“Dickmelon is a complement.”
ok @nal alley corn eater.
“Okay … I’ll admit she lends a hand…
but not beating the unpatriotic D2 ..
he does that all on his own.”
but im sure your still a proud male lesbian
“but im sure your still a proud male lesbian ”
Always.
That wasn’t lost in the dump.
“if something happens that turns out catstrophic (and I hope it doesn’t) ..
prescriptions alone could eat that monthly allotment real quick along with regular doc visits.”
your right about that. anything that would require extended medication or dr’s visits would be a killer.
i guess my medical plan would be alot like my retirement plan i had when i was self employed. i figured id rob banks and either accumulate alot of cash or get caught and get 3 free hots and a cot everyday,
Senators turn back ID requirement for immigrant healthcare:
************************************
“Senate Finance Committee Democrats rejected a proposed a requirement that immigrants prove their identity with photo identification when signing up for federal healthcare programs.
Finance Committee ranking member Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said that current law and the healthcare bill under consideration are too lax and leave the door open to illegal immigrants defrauding the government using false or stolen identities to obtain benefits.
Grassley’s amendment was beaten back 10-13 on a party-line vote.”
*****************************
People should be outraged!
im sure we could lower health care costs if we were all forced to eat some type of highly nutricious government required gruel
How about ketchup as a vegetable?
Health savings accounts are the GOP talking point, however, I fail to see how the 40K per year working stiff with
a 20,000 deductable can save enough to avoid bankruptcy, if hit with one illness requiring a week in the hospital.
Hubby and I both have HSAs. They can work, but only if you can afford them.
For those of you who don’t know how they work, the idea is that you purchase a high-deductible health plan (HDHP), which costs less than a lower-deductible health plan (hence saving you money), and fund a health savings account (HSA) with tax-deductible contributions (hence saving you more money) to help pay for expenses until you meet your deductible, at which time the plan covers your remaining expenses for the year. The HSA is like a 401(k) for health care; the money earns interest (that is not taxed), and you do not pay taxes on your contributions. There is no penalty for withdrawals as long as they pay for approved expenses (doctor/dentist visits, prescriptions, many over-the-counter medications — but, ironically, not health insurance premiums).
Like I said, they can work great if you can afford them. My premium is about $200/month, and with a $250/month HSA contribution, I’m paying $450/month. Hubby’s premium is about $310/month, and with the same HSA contribution as mine, his monthly expense is $560/month.
That’s $1,010/month, or $12,120/year, for health care. That’s a lot of money. It would be more if we had kids. For us, it’s our highest expense after our mortgage. For many people, even their mortgage is cheaper.
What happens if you lose your job and you can’t fund your HSA or pay your premiums?
What happens if you get a cancer diagnosis and your insurance company “discovers” something “wrong” with the application you submitted eight years ago and cancels your coverage (known as “recission”)? Your HSA isn’t going to help you much, is it?
Here in Minnesota, you can get insurance through the Minnesota Comprehensive Health Association (MCHA) if you’ve been turned down by a standard health insurer. But it’s expensive; by law, premiums are at least 2% higher than average premiums at standard companies. It’s better than nothing, but again, if you can’t afford the premiums, it won’t help you much.
Republicans also like to talk about tax credits. But tax credits only help people who have tax liabilities. If you’re unemployed and don’t pay taxes, a tax credit won’t get you very far, either.
Hubby and I are fortunate. We were able to afford our health premiums even when we were unemployed (we’re still catching up with the HSA contributions). But most people aren’t as financially organized as we are. Most people live paycheck to paycheck, and a job loss forces these people to decide whether they pay their rent/mortgage, eat, or pay for health insurance. A lot of people will forego the insurance unless they know they have a medical condition that makes insurance absolutely necessary.
In the meantime, we the taxpayers continue to pay for the health care of the poor. Did you see the article that Hennepin County is considering raising property taxes 3% to cover HCMC expenses previously covered by the insurance program for poor adults that Pawlenty cut? And the 3% increase will cover only about 1/3 of the projected defecit.
Some people are screaming about the need to cut more expenses, and a lot of people suggested that HCMC turn away illegal immigrants (I’ll bet d2 was one of the loudest screamers). But hospitals are mandated by law to treat everyone. Would you want to wait while the hospital was checking your residency status while you were having a heart attack? Or a stroke like poor Greg suffered? “Don’t treat the illegals” isn’t as easy as it sounds, but even if it could be accomplished, I doubt it would erase HCMC’s projected defecit.
There are no easy answers, but like many things, if we don’t find an answer, this thing will go in a direction all its own and bite us all. Actually, it’s already done that. But I predict that any “reform” enacted will be meaningless because of all of the politics on both sides of the aisle in Congress, and we’ll be left with the same monster we have today; it will just have moved to a different corner of the room. And we’ll all suffer for it.
People should be outraged!
d2, the committee also killed the public option, meaning there won’t be anything for immigrants — or anyone else — to sign up for.
“There are no easy answers, but like many things, if we don’t find an answer, this thing will go in a direction all its own and bite us all”
I wonder how many people consider this to be tied to economic woes?
Consider this ..
Having health insurance is responsible.
But can everyone afford to be responsible?
“d2, the committee also killed the public option, meaning there won’t be anything for immigrants — or anyone else — to sign up for.”
Rumors of it’s death are premature.
“How about ketchup as a vegetable?”
ahh, the reagan years
2008 Minnesota Election Voter Fraud? You decide:
We (Minnesota Majority) found evidence of nearly 100 cases in which voter registration and voter history records strongly indicate that a single voter may have voted more than once in a single election. Don’t shoot the messenger.
The United States Postal Service (USPS) has flagged the addresses recorded for nearly 100,000 voters as being either “vacant” or “undeliverable”. We visited approximately two-dozen of these undeliverable addresses to verify the USPS results and discovered approximately 50% of the addresses in our sample to be correctly flagged, in that the addresses did not exist. We have taken photographs of empty lots and non-existent addresses where our investigation revealed invalid addresses.
Using a standard deceased matching service commonly utilized by mailing houses, we discovered thousands of individuals flagged as deceased who are still on the active voter rolls.
CONT…
CONT from above
An investigation by Fox 9 News discovered nearly 100 convicted felons who had newly registered to vote in 2008. Some were registered while in prison, suggesting someone else may have registered in their name.
We discovered thousands of voter records that have an exact match on the criteria of first name, middle name, last name and birth year. [possible illegal alien voters?]
We have discovered several thousand voters registered after August 1, 1983 that had birth years suggesting these individuals are 108 years of age or older. We also found nearly 2,000 individuals who appear to have registered and voted before the age of 18.
Like I said, they can work great if you can afford them. My premium is about $200/month, and with a $250/month HSA contribution, I’m paying $450/month. Hubby’s premium is about $310/month, and with the same HSA contribution as mine, his monthly expense is $560/month.
That’s $1,010/month, or $12,120/year, for health care. That’s a lot of money. It would be more if we had kids. For us, it’s our highest expense after our mortgage. For many people, even their mortgage is cheaper.
Without insurance, my prescriptions alone would exceed that by 50%. With insurance they still cost me about $175
per month.
With heart disease and some other serious conditions, you can imagine how much more (provided I can get coverage) than $200 my premium would be.
That’s enough of a burden on a salary considerably more the 40k that people with families are trying to live on.
That’s why I can’t imagine any real reform without some form of, even if limited, public option. Still, I’m happy with my coverage, and I’m extremely skeptical of the government’s ability to deliver health care with the same level of efficiency I’m used to receiving.
There has to be some middle ground explored.
Hubby and I ….
You do realize that every time you use this term, D2 probably puckers to the point of suffering muscle spasms. I wonder if his insurance covers that?
“108 years of age or older. ”
god bless all those centenarians, still caring enough to get out and vote. i wonder if minnesota centenarian voting patterns match the rest of the country?
shame on me, only a cynical, hate mongering, gun toting, angry mob member racist would even ask the question, no doubt.
“I’m extremely skeptical of the government’s ability to deliver health care with the same level of efficiency I’m used to receiving.”
I was skeptical too when I had health insurance. But right now I would settle for a system 10 times worse than canada has just to be covered by something.
No doubt a govt healt inrance plan would not be 100% efficient, but then again neither is our military. I doubt too many neocons want to srap our national defense just because the miltary occaisionally pays $500 for a toilet seat and sh!t like that.
If too mnay Americans go bankrupt because they get sick without insurance, that’s kind of a national security issue too.
“Very interesting…”
hey, that looks like a girl i used to date !!
Jeremy A, thanks for pointing out the serious flaws in Minnesota’s redicoulsly liberal/ACORN friendly voting policies. Is there any wonder that guy like Al Franken could get close enough for a phoney “recount”? His 44% approval rating says it all.
“hey, that looks like a girl i used to date !! ”
Looks like Jack’s daughter ..
I’ll bet alot of guys know her.
“Jeremy A, thanks for pointing out the serious flaws in Minnesota’s redicoulsly liberal/ACORN friendly voting policies. Is there any wonder that guy like Al Franken could get close enough for a phoney “recount”? His 44% approval rating says it all. ”
You have to wonder how many of those voted D or R.
It would also be interesting to look at the entire scenario ..
just in case there was bias.
“You have to wonder how many of those voted D or R.”
The only reason an ACORN idiot would vote R is if he got his marching orders screwed up, otherwise it’s 100% lib dem/soci@list.
“The only reason an ACORN idiot would vote R is if he got his marching orders screwed up, otherwise it’s 100% lib dem/soci@list. ”
So you’re one of the idiots then right?
“So you’re one of the idiots then right?”
Go play with your Gerbils Greg.
“Go play with your Gerbils Greg. ”
Even if I was into that it would be pretty difficult since you’ve cornered the market.
That’s rather unpatriotic of you …
“Very interesting…”
Just GOes to show.
That we don’t know, what we don’t know.
Most of us don’t know that.
Mr Greg,
I am sad to hear of your strokes. These things make me think of my many blessings and not be such a nattering nabob of negativism. My thankfulness only last so long, and then I am ornery again. This is the evil (not baby fauvel) inside me.
You have a nurse for a wife, so that is a pretty good blessing. I would take one of those. I would probably get nurse Ratched though, so maybe I don’t want that blessing.
“This is the evil (not baby fauvel) inside me.”
Good thing you don’t have Evil Baby Fauvel inside you, leland. His hubby would be jealous.
Good to count your blessings.
Remember that all those insurance premiums were a bet you didn’t want to win.
Too bad though that for all that money you didn’t get covered for the few problems you’ve had. That part sucks to be sure. There should be a better cheaper choice.
I fear the Senate will not deliver that, this time around.
We have to be patient. Many slaves died, waiting for them to end slavery.
Took damn near a century from the time the Republic was founded.
This health care fight is less important than ending slavery, but I believe that cheap health care for all is the direction Jesus would have wanted us to evolve in. Too bad people like Katherine, who are ostensibly more Christian than me, don’t get that.
This is the evil (not baby fauvel) inside me.
So sorry, leland; I’m not available. You could try d2, though….
The other thing that troubles me about leland’s situation is that after paying many K’s of insurance premiums and not having to tap it, now he is without insurance. If he got sick now, all the money he spent supporting all these different private entities that make up our health care infrastructure is for naught, as far as he is concerned. Even though he’s spent his working life keeping them in business. The minute you stop paying in, you’re no longer covered.
This to me is the most compelling argument for an affordable public option.
BTW, Katherine,
Regarding last week’s topic…
I stopped by a bookstore recently and I read about half of a Captain Underpants novel.
If you had a 10-year-old kid who was reluctant to read, Captain Underpants might be just the ticket to get them into it.
If on the other hand you sit Johnny down with the Iliad and express disappointment when he can’t make heads nor tail of it, you may have failed him in fostering an interset in reading… for life. Think and think again about that.
“If you had a 10-year-old kid who was reluctant to read,”
If I had a 10 year old kid reluctant to read I’d strap him into a chair, wire his eyelids open and make him watch “Saving private Ryan” 10 times.
Then I would ask “Read or bleed”; whats it gonna be?
The other thing that troubles me about leland’s situation is that after paying many K’s of insurance premiums and not having to tap it, now he is without insurance. If he got sick now, all the money he spent supporting all these different private entities that make up our health care infrastructure is for naught, as far as he is concerned.
That’s the nature of insurance. Within a given period of time, everyone pays a small amount, and a few people get (sometimes big) payouts to cover the losses they suffer during that time. Had leland gotten sick during the time period for which his premiums paid for coverage, he would (or at least should) have received the benefit of a payout. Actuarial science can, with a surprising degree of accuracy, determine how much money will need to be paid out in expenses. This helps guide pricing premiums.
Of course, this is all how it is supposed to work in theory.
The real problem is that a company’s reason for existence — profitability — is diametrically opposed to the goal of health care — not only to keep people healthy, but to treat diseases — even if that treatment is expensive.
There are two ways to be profitable: 1) increase income; 2) reduce expenses. We all know how insurance companies do both of these things.
I am convinced that as long as insurance companies exist to make a profit for shareholders, they will continue to find ways to screw insureds (the people who purchase insurance).
Why would any private company exist if it did not expect to make a profit and if it could not try to be as profitable as possible? Who would invest in a company whose profits were limited for any reason?
If we really wish to deliver quality health care to everyone, we must significantly reduce the profit motive from health care. People should go into health care careers and invest in health care corporations because they want to help people (and potentially themselves), not because they want to get rich. Aren’t there enough other industries for careers and investments if your goal is to make a ton of money?
But the “American Way” is predicated on the almighty dollar and “market forces.” That paradigm may serve most industries well, but it does not serve us well when it comes to health care. When a company’s profit takes precedence over your chemo, or your dialysis, or your MRI, the only logical conclusion is that the “system” is broken.
We can either have quality health care for all, or we can have a health care “system” that is very profitable for a few. We can’t have both; they are mutually exclusive.
Two closing thoughts. First, a public option would go a long way toward eliminating the profit motive from health care.
Second, I find it ironic that the party professing to be “prolife” has sided with the obscenely profitable private health insurance industry over the health care needs of all Americans.
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Katherine Kersten writes a weekly column for the Star Tribune's Sunday Opinion Exchange section. The column covers a broad range of topics reflecting her experiences and interests.
In this blog, she will address many of the same issues, albeit in quicker, less formal fashion, along with pointing readers to other sources of interesting online commentary and coverage.
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