Will it be Homer or Captain Underpants?
September 19th, 2009 – 11:31 PMHigh-school students: Did you stand last week with Homer on the walls of ancient Troy, watching awestruck as Achilles’ pride brought a vast army to the edge of disaster? Have you walked the mean streets of Victorian London with Oliver Twist? Before you graduate, will you and Mark Twain navigate the mighty Mississippi? Will you share Hester Prynne’s shame as she’s branded with a scarlet letter for her illicit love?
Today, too few teenagers embark on the literary quests for wisdom and adventure that timeless classics offer. Many American schools no longer teach these books. In the 1960s, the cry of “relevance” led some to trade Hamlet for the adolescent angst of Holden Caulfield in “The Catcher in the Rye.” Later, obsessions with multiculturalism, racism and sexism made politically correct books like Alice Walker’s “The Color Purple” de rigueur.
Now we’re taking another giant leap away from greatness toward mediocrity. The New York Times recently profiled an instructional approach called Reading Workshop — “part of a movement to revolutionize the way literature is taught in America’s schools.” Reading Workshop can be implemented in various ways. Generally, however, it involves allowing students to choose the books they read — with few restrictions and minimal teacher guidance — instead of studying a serious work of literature as a class.
The movement has been around at least a decade. But it’s gaining steam in schools from New York City to Seattle, according to the Times.
The Times focused on Lorrie McNeill, a seventh- and eighth-grade teacher from suburban Atlanta who is taking the Reading Workshop approach to the max. She’s delegated all decisions about which books to read to her students, who discuss them individually with her or with classmates and write about them in journals.
McNeill no longer teaches books of substance, such as “To Kill a Mockingbird” or “Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl.” Instead, her students are reading chick-lit books, the Captain Underpants comic-book-style novels, or pop literature such as “Chaka! Through the Fire,” a memoir by R&B star Chaka Khan. Though some students have chosen more challenging books, all are contemporary titles.
A fundamental assumption behind Reading Workshop is that what kids read doesn’t matter as much as the fact that they do read.
“I feel like almost every kid in my classroom is engaged in a novel that they’re actually interacting with,” enthuses McNeill. “Whereas when I do ‘To Kill a Mockingbird,’ I know that I have some kids that just don’t get into it.”
Reading Workshop’s goal is to make students lifelong readers. But it’s hardly self-evident that reading about pop stars is a better use of kids’ — or anyone’s — time than playing video games or basketball.
In 2009, can we still argue persuasively that what young people read matters very much?
It’s clear, for starters, that kids who read books by masters of the literary craft are more likely to become skilled and thoughtful readers, writers and thinkers themselves.
But the reasons for reading good literature go well beyond this.
Young people — like human beings everywhere — face vital questions in life: What does it mean to be a true friend? What should I do when principle and self-interest conflict? How can I act in the face of fear?
In struggling to answer, however, they have limited resources to draw on. They see the world through the restrictive cultural prism of their own time and place. For many, teen actress Miley Cyrus or rapper Kanye West may be the ideal of greatness.
Good literature offers young people a way to transcend these limitations. Through classics that have spoken to readers for generations, they can come to see the myriad ways that people across the globe and through time have met the challenges of the human condition.
Am I convinced that the world is against me? Anne Frank’s story can show me how fortunate I am. Do I wonder what real courage looks like? I can learn by standing at the guillotine in the French Revolution with Dickens’ Sidney Carton in “A Tale of Two Cities.”
By reading good books, young people can watch the consequences of characters’ choices and actions unfold. As they gain insight into why others’ lives have succeeded or failed, they become equipped to live more wisely and well themselves.
Unless our children’s classroom reading aspires to such goals, we may find it hard to explain why the television and the game controller won’t do just as well.
135 Responses to "Will it be Homer or Captain Underpants?"
I couldn’t help but read this and think of all the lessons that Harry Potter has taught me.
In all seriousness… Kanye is a “jack@ss”. Catcher In The Rye is a terribly boring book. It was obviously written for immature 12-year-olds. The only book (other than Chaka Khan and Cap’n Crunch) in this article I haven’t read is “Anne Frank”. I should probably read that sometime…
Later, obsessions with multiculturalism, racism and sexism made politically correct books like Alice Walker’s “The Color Purple” de rigueur.
I thought The Color Purple was a very interesting book. What an interesting way to write a book. Very sad story, but very interesting.
It is sad that so many good books will go unread by today’s youth. I guess it’s up to parents to do their job. Forgive me if I have no confidence in them…
This may be a reflection on my friends and the people I know(and forgive my apparent rudeness), but I think my generation are going to be much better parents than today’s parents.
“Kanye is a “jack@ss”.”
Know how to hide money from a rapper? Put it in a book.
I’m drawn to your headlines like a moth to flame. I love both Homer and Cap’n Underpants (even have voices for the main characters of CU). And often, I have an interest in your articles’ topics. As a parent, I hone-in on important issues like education and literary exploration!
But I get burned. I am insulted, reduced to muttering about effete conservatism strutting around like wisdom. I find it deplorable that you are still writing for the Strib.
BUT…
They’re stuck -as are you. Vanilla. Irrelevant. I’m disgusted by machinations stymied by prejudice and inflexibility.
Let’s spin that ol’ saying you know, if it bleeds it leads? Your articles - like this one fall under: If it makes your blood boil, Kersten wrote it.
“Let’s spin that ol’ saying you know, if it bleeds it leads? Your articles - like this one fall under: If it makes your blood boil, Kersten wrote it. ”
Perhaps you should read the title of her column and blog ..
Think Again.
Place an emphasis on ‘Think’ vs. turning to a chosen ideology.
The classics are just that. They can teach and when put in line with many other modern classics can teach kids not only to read, but to consider all the potentials.
Extremism on either side of the literary world provides nothing.
“Know how to hide money from a rapper? Put it in a book. ”
Looks like D2 has more in common with rappers than he knew.
i agree to a point. having kids read good literature is important. but some of the books the i had to read in college could almost make one comatose. i remember being assigned doris lessing for a term paper ….aarrrg, boring, boring boring … and i got a c- , my worst paper ever…. on the other hand, if i could have chosen a kurt vonegut novel, fyodor dostoevsky or even heinlen or asimov, i would have been much more into it.
I can’t believe Al Franken voted to cut Federal funding to the corrupt democrat vote fraud ACORN and it’s 30,000 members in Minnesota. What a back stabber! After, he owes his phoney victory to this group!
What a back stabber! After, he owes his phoney victory to this group!
Watch out for the green men watching you from above.
“Watch out for the green men watching you from above. ”
thats what tinfoil hats are for
DJ, Franken could never have turned around a several hundred vote win for Coleman, and “recounted” it into a several hundred vote phoney victory for Franken without the magic of ACORN. How could he turn on those poor bastards like that?
Also, ACORN was successful in recruiting enough illegal votes for Franken to make the “recount” even happen.
“Also, ACORN was successful in recruiting enough illegal votes for Franken to make the “recount” even happen. ”
at least franken is a better comedian as a politician than he was as an snl writer.
well, i must take my leave from this riveting discussion and get ready to go to my local gators(sports bar) to watch the forces of good(eagles) battle the forces of evil(saints). may my team win.
today i find out DJ thinks “catcher in the rye” is poorly written compared to “harry potter” and stevek is an eagles fan. I should have stayed in bed.
Atleast I now know where to hide my money if attacked by rappers. thats a plus.
“But I get burned. I am insulted, reduced to muttering about effete conservatism strutting around like wisdom. I find it deplorable that you are still writing for the Strib.”
♪♫ someone forgot to take their medication ♪♫
♪♫ someone forgot to take their medication ♪♫
It think cyberRAT is really comrade Nick Coleman in disguise. He used to go by roving reporter.
“…Am I convinced that the world is against me?…”
The tenor of your writing since the 2008 election certainly seems to suggest it, Kathy.
“…By reading good books, young people can watch the consequences of characters’ choices and actions unfold. As they gain insight into why others’ lives have succeeded or failed, they become equipped to live more wisely and well themselves…”
There’s probably some life-lesson type stuff in Chaka Khan’s autobiography. That lady has lived a bit. So the prose probably doesn’t match Faulkner’s level of virtuosity. So what? Why do you have a problem with fostering kids’ interest in reading by picking topics they are interested in?
“…they can come to see the myriad ways that people across the globe and through time have met the challenges of the human condition…”
Across the globe? Seems like you’re only actually interested in seeing how
dead white men from past centuries have met those challenges. Oh, and Anne Frank. Everybody loves Anne Frank. When I read it in 6th grade we all had the page dog-eared where she talks about fondling one of her female friends. That was hot.
Now back to Chaka Khan. Your casual dissing of Chaka Khan (not to mention Alice Walker) seems to belie this unbecoming tendency you have to dismiss out of hand that which doesn’t interest you, and to presume that since it doesn’t interest you it lacks merit relative to that which does. I don’t feel like Ms. Khan has done much worth listening to in the past couple decades, but Katherine, I suggest you go down to the used record store and get yourself a copy of the Rags to Rufus record. Listen to “Tell me Something Good.” Heck, just go to iTunes and download that one track. I’ll never forget where I was when I heard it for the first time. If Chaka Khan had never done anything else in her career, that four minutes of music alone would still represent a greater influence on our nation’s culture than Katherine Kersten’s entire lifetime of written output.
KK ..
You should write about Sons of Anarchy ..
that would be cool.
I just saw Sons of Anarchy for the first time. Was traveling so had rare access to cable TV.
Pretty good TV show. Kinda like the Sopranos in that it gets you to sympathize with well-developed characters who do pretty amoral things. Plus there’s thematic material borrowed from Shakespeare.
I must admit I know nothing about this Captain Underpants guy. Katherine has piqued my curiosity. I should check it out.
I must admit I know nothing about this Captain Underpants guy. Katherine has piqued my curiosity
You and me both.
sometimes the forces of evil, using treachery and malice, overrun the best fortifications the valiant defenders build. but never fear , the good, brave and noble warriors will regroup in half a fortnight in time to vanquish their next evil foe.
Sorry to hear about the Eagles stevek.
Hey guys, I’m having an argument with my daughter on whether or not this is really John Lennon. Any thoughts?
This is SO not Nick Coleman…but, I’m flattered!
Carry on….
“Any thoughts”
besidesthe fact its often easier getting along without any in a liberal society … the actor?. musician? does an adequate parody.
Katherine, given the dumbing down of America over the last few decades, what did you expect?
Reading in general is going out of style. Kids prefer the audio/visual stimulation of TV, movies and video games to books. Oh, kids know how to read, but they don’t have the attention span or patience necessary to conquer the classics. Why read it when you can rent the movie? For those of us who appreciate the art of the written word, this is depressing. (It’s even more depressing knowing that some very good books have been made into rather poor movies.)
And why think about issues when you can have someone of your political persuasion think for you? We’ve seen numerous examples of regurgitated rhetoric from posters across the political spectrum right here on Think Again.
Why should we have reasoned debates — which require thoughtful reflection, the ability to research and understand an issue, the ability to form cogent rebuttals, and a willingness to consider opposing viewpoints — when we can fling prefabricated soundbites at our “enemies” across the political aisle and “score” a cheap point?
In today’s live-for-the-moment world of instant gratification, is it any wonder that people simply aren’t interested in taking the time necessary to read a book? Some people won’t read my lengthier posts; can we honestly expect them to read a 700-page novel?
No wonder teachers like Lorrie McNeill take the attitude they do. At least their students are reading. It may not be To Kill A Mockingbird, but it’s better than not reading at all. Oh, I wish they would read To Kill A Mockingbird and many other classics, but I think that even Captain Underpants would be preferable to a mindless computer game.
I sometimes wonder about the simple pleasures that my grandparents, and their parents and grandparents, enjoyed in their day, pleasures that are really no longer a part of our world. And I wonder what simple pleasures that we enjoy will fade out of existence in the centuries after we die. I hope that reading won’t be one of those.
By reading good books, young people can watch the consequences of characters’ choices and actions unfold. As they gain insight into why others’ lives have succeeded or failed, they become equipped to live more wisely and well themselves.
Some contemporary books are good, and the lessons they teach are just as valid — perhaps moreso because of their relevance to today’s world — as those taught in the classics. Katherine, perhaps you should add a few good contemporary books to your collection and see for yourself.
“Reading in general is going out of style. Kids prefer the audio/visual stimulation”
Yeah, EBF,
I read it as “Will it be Homo Captain Underpants?” too.
Jeez EBF, do you have to make your posts so long? I don’t want to read all that! :)
Hi, all,
Very late after a busy day of repair work, don’t have much energy, but will say:
I like EBF’s 10:01 pm comment very much and agree with most of his points. For instance:
Oh, I wish they would read To Kill A Mockingbird and many other classics, but I think that even Captain Underpants would be preferable to a mindless computer game.
and:
Some contemporary books are good, and the lessons they teach are just as valid — perhaps more so because of their relevance to today’s world — as those taught in the classics.
I agree that a teacher has to “get the kids where they’re at,” or will likely have more success with that approach. There’s an ancient Latin proverb to the effect that lessons are learned according to the ability of the learner.
I see two good things about requiring the kids to read the classics. First, they force the kids to look at a world that is not 21st-century American, maybe neither. Second, they can show the kids that human nature doesn’t change. (Of course if my wife ran off with a young brat from another town, I don’t think I’d raise a thousand ships and go to war to get her back!)
That said, I have to admit I absolutely hated Silas Marner, David Copperfield, and a few others that, when I read them later in life, I liked very much. I never saw until I was at least thirty what a great melodrama Jane Eyre is; and I was well over forty when I thought that Wuthering Heights should be subtitled “Dysfunctional Family 101.”
There are some books I have bought and read just because a movie perked my interest; Oliver Twist is a good example. To Kill a Mockingbird was required in high school and I have read it at least five or six times since; appreciated the movie very much.
My “Big Four” right now are Les Misérables, Kristin Lavransdatter, Studs Lonigan, and The Brothers Karamazov. Each one is well over 1000 pages.
Final tongue-in-cheek comment: I suspect strongly the best way to get teenagers to read the classics is to forbid them to do so. (Smirk.)
Hi, again, all,
Shame on me for forgetting the “end italics” tag!
Another indictment of education USA. Thank you Katherine
I discovered last week that my grandaughter had never heard of Christopher Columbus. Rest assured, by winter Gramps will ensure that she’s a walking talking xenophobe. And by the time she hits high school she will know the other great Italian, Dante Alighieri. She’ll need to to understand the hell we’ve made of western civilization.
David Copperfield is an incredibly boring book. Who wants to read 650 pages of a boring book for 30 pages of entertainment? I can read Captain Underwear for entertainment and look at D2’s site if I want to be bored. :)
“I discovered last week that my grandaughter had never heard of Christopher Columbus.”
Failing government run public schools probably haven’t taught her about our Founding Fathers or our Constitution either in their attempt to create young soci@lists.
People should be outraged!
“Failing government run public schools probably haven’t taught her about our Founding Fathers or our Constitution either in their attempt to create young soci@lists.”
im told that some schools are now teaching that barak created the earth in 6 days.
I always thought Louis L’amour was up there as a great novelist! The saga of the Sackets………leaves one spellbound!
But now that I’m grown up my new hero is Mitch Rapp!
I never saw until I was at least thirty what a great melodrama Jane Eyre is
God point FC.
There is a special place in hell reserved for English teachers who force 16-year-old boys to read Jane Eyre
Mrs. H., you know who you are… I’m talkin’ to you.
Whoops I meant to say “good point, FC.”
” Who wants to read 650 pages of a boring book [David Copperfield] for 30 pages of entertainment? ”
The reason Dickens’ books were so long is they were published as serials, one chapter at a time, kinda like soap operas, and he would get paid per word, so there was a lot of filler.
That guy could eat up a whole page and use dozens of polysyllabic words just describing the consistency of the morning poop he had that day. Great writer nonetheless.
“There is a special place in hell reserved for English teachers who force 16-year-old boys to read Jane Eyre.”
I fail to see AT ALL how my life has been enriched by being required to read Pride and Prejudice in British Lit. God what a waste of time.
“I sometimes wonder about the simple pleasures that my grandparents, and their parents and grandparents, enjoyed in their day, pleasures that are really no longer a part of our world.”
I gotta say that one of my favorite things is reading the paper. Actually going to the store, buying it, folding it up and sitting down in a dinner to read it while I eat breakfast.
I couldn’t help but read this and think of all the lessons that Harry Potter has taught me.
Translation - DJ whips out his magic wand, points it at an attractive female, shouts “HUMPUS DEEJAYUS”, and an entire box of Trojans disappears.
Hi, all,
If I were a high-school teacher, I would (try to) rent a well-made movie of an acknowledged classic and show it to the class. In the case of Oliver Twist, for instance, I bought and read the book because of a Masterpiece Theatre presentation. I would like to make time to reread it this winter because there are people like Fagin and Bill Sykes in this world. Good lesson for kids, and better to learn it safely in a book than roughly on the street.
One set of books that my brothers and sisters and I read avidly when we were kids was “The Junior Classics.” There’s lots of good things in that set, and pointers to the “grownup” versions of the works.
I think Katherine should do a column on all these evil Czars. No Republican would ever have Czars.
“If I were a high-school teacher,…”
I would have them read A Christmas Carol and then follow-up with a screening of Scrooged with Bill Murray …
or Wall Street.
That guy could eat up a whole page and use dozens of polysyllabic words just describing the consistency of the morning poop he had that day.
The burning sting indicating the dissolution of my peritoneum was the primary indicator that my employer could expect me several rotations of minute indicator past my prescribed time for arrival. It soon became clear the infintesimal literary quantity of that ubiquitous, time honored defecatory publication, the Readers Digest, would be insufficient to occupy the time quantum required of this mornings expurgation. I rejoiced as I accomodated myself on the porcelin cathedra, having become observant of the hardcover edition of Crime and Punishment underneath the Readers Digest. Were I devoid all tactile sensitivity in my sphincter, the pungency of the feculence would have proclaimed its general level of viscosity, that of overcooked jambalya.
Translation - DJ whips out his magic wand, points it at an attractive female, shouts “HUMPUS DEEJAYUS”, and an entire box of Trojans disappears.
No, no, no… It’s more like I point my wand into the comic book store and say, “Accio” and all my favorite comic books come flying out at me. Then I do the same to get my Batman and Captain Underwear action figures.
“Will you share Hester Prynne’s shame as she’s branded with a scarlet letter for her illicit love?”
I’ve said before in a similar thread on this blog that a big red “A” would be an awesome tattoo for a stripper.
“If I were a high-school teacher, I would (try to) rent a well-made movie of an acknowledged classic and show it to the class. ”
I had a good 10th grade English teacher who did just that, although he had us read and watch Great Expectations instead of Oliver Twist.
Also did a good job of explaining some of the critque of Victorian social inequity that was embedded in the story.
Let’s see, what else did he have us read?
All Quiet on the Western Front
The Crucible by Arthur Miller, (included a lecture on McCarthyism).
Julius Caeasar by Shakespeare (We all had to take a turn and recite some memorized passage of oratory from that play, I chose Brutus’ public elegy of Caesar where he turns the crowd against Cassius, but I did it with the same accent as the Biggus Dickus character from Monty Python’s The Life of Brian ).
“Fwendthe, Womanthe, countwymen, wend me your eerthe. I come to buwy Thaethar, not to pwaithe him…”
I still got a good grade. He was a pretty good sport. Probably a little too far to the Left for Katherine, but he was a great teacher and every book he taught was a classic. So there.
Mr. N., let the record show you were way better than Mrs. H. She was a twit. Not just for making me read Jane Eyre, either.
but I did it with the same accent as the Biggus Dickus character from Monty Python’s The Life of Brian
That was Pontius Pilate, whose fwiend was Biggus Dickus. I know this because I just watched the movie again this weekend.
Actually, that accent is not much different than Brando’s Caesar.
Right, Pilate had the speech impedimemt first, but then Biggus showed up later on in the film and he talked the same way.
Maybe they were satirizing Bwando.
Also provided the template for the “most impwessive clergyman” in Princess Bride.
“Mawwiage…”
Now, Mrs. H., she was an effete pseudo-intellectual, a rich lady who worked as a public school teacher out of some misguided sense of Noblesse Oblige. Drove a Jaguar to school. Wore Ann Taylor clothes. She was obsessed with symbolism in literature but didn’t quite get that her arbitrary interpretation of a book’s symbolism was not necessarily the objective truth. We learned early on that the only right answer on the test for a given book’s symbolism was what she had told us it was. Other than the contemptible Jane Eyre, the only book that ever forced me to resort to Cliff’s Notes, I’ll allow she actually had a pretty tasty curriculum:
Demian, by Herman Hesse (OK this one was kinda wasted on me at the time too)
Lord of the Flies
1984
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
When we got to 1984, I read it straight through in a day, then she got mad at me when I knew all the answers that she would pose to the class about chapters she hadn’t assigned yet. She took me outside the classroom one day and gave me the choice that I could either not say a word for an entire week or could sit out in the hall and read Crime and Punishment. Since there was no extra credit afforded for reading the Dostoyevsky, I opted for the “glare at the b!tch in silent protest all week” option. This earned me the approbation of my peers.
In her final exam, one of the heavily-weighted questions from Dr. Jekyll was we were supposed to regurgitate her interpretation of what she thought the sybolism was of all the different colors the potion turned when Dr. Jekyll mixed it up. I hadn’t taken notes about that. I recited it as best I could remember from rote and then added the comment that really it was probably just creative imagery on Stevenson’s part, and not meant to be symbolic per se.
I added on another answer that the book might not actually be about mankind’s innate inner evil as she taught us, but rather just one big allegory for drug addicition. I didn’t do so well on the test, but you know what? A year later when my stepsister took the class, Mrs. S. hammered into them that Dr. Jekyll was an allegory for drug addiction. Go figure.
That was 10th grade. 11th grade was early American literature with Mr. S., lots of Poe, lots of Hawthorne, heavy on the Emerson and Thoreau, read Huck Finn in its entirety. So ironically I got to read in school most of the things Katherine bemoans as being missing from today’s curriculum. I bet they are still in the curriculum at my old school too. We had to do a skit based on something we had read during the semester and my peers and I enacted burying Mrs. H live inside a brick wall a la the Cask of Amontillado. Had her yelling “motifs and symbols! motifs and symbols” instead of “Amontillado!” as she got walled in. We got a good grade but it seemed to make Mr. S. uncomfortable.
So is Congress basically going to bend to the whining of everyone? If you spend money you don’t have, you should have to pay for it. It’s an easy way to teach you to be more responsible with your money.
You know what book I loved as a kid but haven’t read in a long, long time? Where the Red Fern Grows.
I don’t even know if I could tell you the plot anymore. I was a big fan of Gary Paulsen’s Hatchet too.
I also wanted to be blind after reading a book about a kid who goes blind after playing with fireworks and becomes good friends with his seeing-eye-dog… Not sure that was the intended result of the author but I was young and it seemed cool.
“So ironically I got to read in school most of the things Katherine bemoans as being missing from today’s curriculum.”
If I remember correctly, it was Lord of the Flies in 8th grade, several Vonneguts (with whom I bet KK might have a problem) in 11th Catcher in the Rye in 10th.
Two things stand out with my 10th grade
English teacher, Miss P. One, she had a condition where her eyes couldn’t look straight ahead, she was always looking off to the right, and had to turn her head to look at you. Two, she was rumored to be screwing one of my classmates.
10th grade keeps coming back to haunt me in the last week. First I get reminded or bio class. That same day, the girl who punched me in the face during bio class contacts me through facebook, now Miss P.
“If you spend money you don’t have, you should have to pay for it. It’s an easy way to teach you to be more responsible with your money. ”
I agree, but at the same time, some banks have been pulling a scam where they’ll post checks out of order in order to trigger overdrafts.
she was rumored to be screwing one of my classmates.
Be honest. You started that rumor, didn’t you?
“you spend money you don’t have, you should have to pay for it.”
Sure, DJ, but how much?
My bank queues up all your transactions biggest to smallest and runs them through at the end of the day in a batch job. That way they can maximize the number of transactions you overdraft on. Say you have a $100 balance and have the following checks and card purchases:
$10 for gas
$6 for beer
$85 for groceries
They put transactions through in this order:
$85
$10
$6
So they can hit you with 3 overdraft fees instead of just one, and the overdraft fees (3 * $35) exceed the sum of the original transaction value, which should have only overdrafted your account by $1 if posted in the same order you made the transactions. @ssholes.
Sure we should be responsible for balancing our checkbooks, but the ammount they charge on gotcha fees shouldn’t be predatory and should maybe be governed by the same laws forbidding usurous lo@ns.
some banks have been pulling a scam where they’ll post checks out of order in order to trigger overdrafts
Hmmm.. that’s no bueno. That’s definitely different. Still, that’s not a good enough reason to stop overdraft fees. Make sure they stop doing that and leave the overdraft fees alone.
I never had to read Vonnegut in high school, but Mr. N. did mention Slaughterhouse 5 in passing during a lecture about All Quiet on the Western Front. He said the incessant use of the phrase “so it goes” throughout the book was designed to make you rebel at the notion that war is inevitable in the course of human events.
Yeah, I doubt Katherine is a Vonnegut fan.
Sure we should be responsible for balancing our checkbooks, but the ammount they charge on gotcha fees shouldn’t be predatory and should maybe be governed by the same laws forbidding usurous lo@ns.
I have no problem with that. The article (or what I read of it) seemed to suggest they were going to ban overdraft fees or at least make them less. I don’t think that is fair. What’s next? Late fees at Blockbuster are too expensive? Late fees at the library?
No they won’t outlaw late fees at the library.
But they do ask the library what you’ve been checking out…
When I was in the hospital with my heart problems, I ran up $48.00 in late fees at my library.
The day following my release I talked to the manager at the library, and explained my circumstances, and asked if they could waive the fees.
She just scowls at me and says “You couldn’t think to call us”.
“I’m sorry”, I say, “but please understand that my library DVDs were not at the top of my thoughts at the time.”
She says, “well, there’s nothing I can do, we need to account for every dollar to the county” She scowls again, and says “you couldn’t bother to call us”
I respond with “Well, maam. 12 days ago, I went to my doctor thinking I have a bronchial infection, and that I would get an antibiotic and go home to sleep it off. Instead, I get an ambulance ride to the ER, three drugs administered to get my heart beating normally, all of which fail, a cardioversion, two days in the ICU with tubes shoved everywhere you could possibly shove a tube, two surgeries, and nine more days in the cardiac unit.
Again, my library items were not foremost on my mind. Please understand that while I’m willing to pay what I have to pay, I won’t do so until your supervisor tells me so”.
She just scowls again and says “If you can prove, in writing, that you really were where you say you were, then maybe…”
At that point I just unbutton my shirt and show here the fresh, bloody scar in my chest that’s held together with staples and ask her “I understand it’s not in writing, but how many customers get out of their late fees by slicing themselves open”? I stood there, watching all the color go from her face, then I walked out.
Five minutes later I get a call apologizing, and my fees waived.
“She just scowls at me and says “You couldn’t think to call us”.”
That wouldn’t be a government run library, would it?
Glad you’re doing better mthalo!
Yes, that would be a Gov’t library.
“At that point I just unbutton my shirt and show here the fresh, bloody scar in my chest that’s held together with staples”
I think plenty of people would have paid more than $48.00 to see that. That librarian got a bargain.
I was wondering all day where leland8 was as the title of this column is right up his alley.
And then I read his 7:50 post.
The Post Office is a little more forgiving.
I didn’t get to my PO Box for about 7 weeks after a work comp injury last year and my box got locked.
I explained to the postmaster “why” I hadn’t been in.
Told him that coming into the post office to get my mail was not at the top of my list of things to do while I was recuperating.
They did waive the start-up fees to get my box reopened.
I still looked pretty banged up, so I think he believed I’d been hurt.
Actually going to the store, buying it, folding it up and sitting down in a dinner to read it while I eat breakfast.
Sounds a bit messy, sitting down in a dinner….
D@, here’s what maybe happened at the “Gov’t Run” library. Long ago, clerks were given wide discretion to waive fines. But then the “no new taxes” folks became angry because enough revenue wasn’t being collected. So, to appease those folks, new strict rules were put in place. Maybe that ain’t what happened here, but I haveseen it happen in other instances.
Besides, isn’t returning your materials or paying the fines a “personal responsibility” issue? Waiving those fines means the general public is gonna have to make up for that lost revenue. Smacks a little of Soci@lism there, D2?
There have been alot of great classics mentioned, whose study would be beneficial to our kids. but, suprisingly noone has mentioned “the adventures of bluntman and chronic”, which should never be left of the list of the all time greats.
Hi, all,
I’m surprised at myself for forgetting Huckleberry Finn. I can’t count the times I’ve read it, first time was when I was in fifth grade or so. Every time I reread it I see something I’d missed before — the more I bring to a book the more I get out of it. Note, by the way, the noblest human being in the book is Jim.
Dear President Obama,
I am writing regarding your apparent support for fining people who don’t have health insurance.
I am afraid, Mr President, this won’t work. I don’t have health insurance, so I have some understanding of this problem. Most of us who don’t have health insurance can’t afford it. It’s not like we don’t want to have health care. We just can’t afford it. We will not be able to afford the fine either. Then you will have to put us in prison. What a costly mess.
I have a better idea. Instead of punishing the uninsured with a fine, give us the death penalty. That’s right, capital punishment. That way, there would be a health care plan in place that we the uninsured could realistically participate in.
This is a workable solution. It’s the kind final solution that you and congress have been searching for, but just haven’t quite yet been able to formulate.
Thank you, Mr President, for your consideration of my idea.
Regards,
leland
“…the noblest human being in the book is Jim”
Yep, and Huck and Jim are okay when they’re on the river, but any time they get off the river and get mixed up in the affairs of other people that’s when they have trouble.
And the moral climax of the book is where Huck resolves to go against the church teachings of his community and risk what he figures will be damnation to save Jim.
“This is a workable solution. It’s the kind final solution that you and congress have been searching for, but just haven’t quite yet been able to formulate.”
simply brilliant, my dear friend
Don’t sweat it Leland, we’ll keep pickin’ up the tab for ya.
“I agree, but at the same time, some banks have been pulling a scam where they’ll post checks out of order in order to trigger overdrafts.”
Try all banks. Its right there in your account agreement.
If people dont like $35 ODs, blame the dead beats who open accounts, jack them up in 30 days and split. The banks charge the fees to discourage abuse and to make up the losses from dead beats. If you get ODed twice its your own damn fault. The alternative is to bounce all your ODed items, decline your card and have the merchant report you to the credit agencies and charge you a $35 return check fee for the experience.
I think you’d probably prefer the $35 fee from the bank and avoid being sent to collections because your $4 check to Dairy Queen bounced. Either way your getting charged.
Mr. Earsell, So far, I’ve been picking up the tab. For myself, and through my taxes, for others too. As long as Obama doesn’t fine me, I won’t sweat it. I’ll have enough money to pay for my prescription.
Most overdrafts are now incurred on debit card transactions. Is it ethical for the bank to allow customers to overspend with their debit cards (mine are advertised as having charges deducted at the point of sale), then hit them with multiple fees?
Is it a deliberate practice?
C’mon Deacon, I have no problem with paying a fee if I goof up and forget a transaction every once and a while and dip into overdraft status. I realize also the bank extends a service by not bouncing the transactions outright and that’s worth something. But the amount of the fee shouldn’t grossly exceed the bank’s financial exposure and they shouldn’t queue their batches to inflate the number of fees they can charge. That’s just plain greedy and the end result is often kicking otherwise good customers when they’re down and that’s not good business in the long run. I’ll back our Congressman if he wants to make a law that sets limits. Especially they should cut out that biggest-to-smallest batch queueing bullsh!t. Don’t tell me the bank couldn’t post transactions in the order they came in. First in, first out, that’s all I ask.
In the meantime, to buffer myself against my own flakiness and my bank’s greed, I set up that overdraft protection deal where as long as I have enough in my checking account to cover the overdraft it only costs me ten bucks. I don’t trigger it too often. Pretty good trick though, charging me to use my own money. Don’t think I won’t jump to another bank if they came up with a kinder fee structure.
Problem is, they nearly all suck that way from what I can tell.
Someone wrote me a check. I deposited it in my bank. It turned out to be a bad check. My bank charged ME a fee when the check bounced. Banks are crooked.
I mean as long as I have enough in savings to cover overdraft (in checking)
“Banks are crooked.”
Not really. They tel you up front in all that boring fine print exactly how they are going to game you out of your money, as Deacon points out. They typically can give a very forthright accounting of it all in the end too.
Not crooked. Just really grabby.
I’ll stick with “crooked”. Fine print isn’t disclosure. They should disclose their terms and have the person initial next to each disclosure when they open the account. There is no meaningful disclosure, no meaningful regulation and thus most of their transactions are highly dubious and fall well within the “crooked” category.
Banks feast off the poor and uneducated primarily. Especially African Americans and Spanish speaking Americans. They just fee those poor people into further poverty. They are a big old fat blood sucking leech attached to the underclass.
Few entities have so wreaked financial havoc on the most vulnerable segment of society as banks. They serve no useful purpose. Their fees and usury hold people in bondage. They are parasites and have no sense of morals or decency.
No human being needs them, and they offer nothing of value to society. The world would be a far better place without them.
Deacon, look at my 4:34 post from yesterday. Think about that scenario.
Is it right to be charged $105 in fees when you overdrafted your account by $1 in three transactions totalling $106? That’s exactly how it works at the ol’ stagecoach bank. Say the bank has to wait another week to collect the fees from your next ACH deposit. What’s the APR if you charge $105 interest on $1 that’s paid back in a week? That’s not just usury, that’s a pound of flesh.
Been a while since I’ve experienced a perfect storm like that, but looking back on times it has, I’ll warrant the people it happens to can scarcely afford those knicks when they happen.
Those experiences are to banking customers what being cooped up on the tarmac all night are to airline customers.
Whoops, got my math a little wrong in the last post. But you get the point. or not.
“I hate banks. They do nothing positive for anybody except take care of themselves. They’re first in with their fees and first out when there’s trouble.” - Earl Warren
Even a lefty like Earl Warren could recognize a scoundrel. It could also be added that they are first in line to feed from the public trough (bailouts) when the going gets tough.
“But the amount of the fee shouldn’t grossly exceed the bank’s financial exposure and they shouldn’t queue their batches to inflate the number of fees they can charge.”
I agree on the queing deal. But the dollar amount is fine with me. You dont see the other side of it with the habitual ODers. Its crazy. At the branch all I did was deal with delinquant accounts. And see the losses. The banks dont net that much money from it.
“First in, first out, that’s all I ask.”
Im cool with that.
“Someone wrote me a check. I deposited it in my bank. It turned out to be a bad check. My bank charged ME a fee when the check bounced. Banks are crooked”
They do that to keep you from kitting checks. They also give you availability to the first $100 of that deposit. It takes a day or two for it to bounce right? So you’ve had $100 that wasnt yours for 2 or 3 days. Maybe the bank should not give you any money until the check clears and you can avoid the $10 NSF fee?
“Is it right to be charged $105 in fees when you overdrafted your account by $1 in three transactions totalling $106?”
No, its not, but consider the alternative. Im talking purely about the amount of the fee $35. If the bank bounced the check, the merchant will charge you $35 for bouncing it instead of the bank, THEN send you to collections and hit your credit.
“They should disclose their terms and have the person initial next to each disclosure when they open the account.”
If I thought customers would have listened to the disclosures I would have considered having them innitial. Too bad most people dont give a rats @ss about disclosures until they get burned.
“They also give you availability to the first $100 of that deposit. It takes a day or two for it to bounce right? So you’ve had $100 that wasnt yours for 2 or 3 days. Maybe the bank should not give you any money until the check clears and you can avoid the $10 NSF fee?”
Oh great. I had access to $100.00 in my account that I didn’t use for 2-3 days. They charged me $25.00 for that. So technically, I “borrowed” $100.00 for 2-3 days which I didn’t use, and was then charged $25.00 for that priviledge. What is the annual percentage rate on that little loan? How many thousand percent? Crooks.
“Crooks.”
Okay so the bank took your request did the work and ’someone’ gave you a bad check. Who’s the crook, the bank or the guy that stiffed you?
Feel free to get paid in cash and bury it in the backyard Leland.
The banks advertise “Free checking” but don’t disclose that it’s really “Fee checking”. If there was honest disclosure people would think twice. Many would turn it down.
Most people shouldn’t go into a bank without an advocate or attorney, otherwise they are sure to get their butt ripped.
“Who’s the crook, the bank or the guy that stiffed you?”
According to the bank, it was me. I got the penalty. According to me, it was the bank. They took my money.
“Feel free to get paid in cash and bury it in the backyard Leland.”
People could conduct transactions without banks. One need not bury cash in the backyard. There are alternatives.
“According to the bank, it was me. I got the penalty. According to me, it was the bank. They took my money.”
From my prespective it was the guy who gave you a bad check.
“When I was in the hospital with my heart problems, I ran up $48.00 in late fees at my library.”
When I had my spleen thingy my insurance paid for all but $152.00 for the 2 minute ambulance ride. I made arangments to pay in full on a certain date after getting back to work. The day of my arranged payment I called it in and paid over the phone. 2 hours later I got a call back from the ambulamce company. They said they could not accept my payment because it was already submitted to a collection agency. When I asked why it was sent to a collection agency when I had already made arangments I could hear the f^cken moron on the other end shrug and say “I don’t know.” I paid the collection agency in full as soon as I recieved their statement.
2 days ago (2 years later) I recieved a bill from a collection agency for the excact same amount from the same abulance company for the same services I had already paid for 2 years ago.
I called the ambulance company and asked them what the F^ck.
They replied that the previous collection agency had been liquidated and never sent a statement that I, and many others, had paid in full. That they will clear my record. I asked them why the hell they did’nt contact me first. Again, I could hear the moron on the other end shrug and say “I don’t know”.
Do I have any legal standing here to sue or something for these bozos trashing my credit rating twice for no reason?
“One need not bury cash in the backyard. There are alternatives. ”
Hawala?
leland,
The guy who wrote you a bad check owes you whatever the bank took.
Beat his @ss if he won’t make good on it.
“If people don’t like $35 ODs, blame the dead beats who open accounts, jack them up in 30 days and split.”
Sounds like the bank needs to figure out how to vet their customers better.
Like that Iranian bigshot Dem campaign contributor, who successively kited his bank debt up to $290 million with Citi and BOA.
Home owners with good credit ratings are having to jump through 19 hoops to get a measly $200k mortgage and this @sshole talks some banks into lending him $290M based on fake collateral? how does that work?
no wonder they have to rig their apparatus to chisel their honest customers with exorbitant fees.
It’s almost like how the insured pay the health expenses of the uninsured in the form of the hospital charging them $50 for a tylenol and sh!t like that.
“Do I have any legal standing here to sue or something for these bozos trashing my credit rating twice for no reason? ”
GO,
First of all as a person with helath insurance, I’m glad your spleen blew out when you had health insurance too, and not now.
Second,
Sounds like the ambulance company got de
frauded by a fake collections agency that used the database they provided to fleece every customer and never pay the ambulance company what they collected and then keep the money and conveniently disappear. Wouldn’t be surprised if some one at the ambulance company was in cahoots with the fake bill collectors, given the premature nature of your case going to collection.
Don’t know how I posted in the middle of typing.
Anyway there could be a class-action suit there. The trick would be getting in touch with all the other people who are also getting harassed by this half-assed ambulance company’s shady bill collectors.
Run an ad in the paper maybe?
Better yet, get a lawyer to work on retainer and let them run the ad?
of course, the lawyer will take half the winnings in the end.
lastly,
before sleepy time,
GO and leland,
It pains me that there is not a big ‘ol health insurance plan, run by the govt, that you could subscribe to at a cost that reflects your current means.
To leland in particular, this is important stuff. maybe now is not the time for wild over the top satirical rhetoric, not when something good actually could come of this all that gets you insured.
That said, can you do me a favor and stand next to the edge of that big trench?
thanks.
“First of all as a person with helath insurance, I’m glad your spleen blew out when you had health insurance too”
Ron-A-double.
Situations demand realworld thinking. 25 years with insuarance. Working steady for the same employer since 1995. And BAMmmmmm (small “m”, I’m at small “m” mode). I passed a milestone or maybe a foot note in my odysey of unemployment. Duct tape….don’t leave home without it. If I could leave one tangable mark on the blog it would be Duct Tape. …………………..
………………….it holds headlights in place very well. Nope. It’s actually been a god send.
Insurance as a staple of the american diet is a necesity.
Obama Isn’t doing such a bad job. I would give him a “B”.
Why did the Holder administration drop the prosecution of electorial intimmidation against the black panthers even thought they were winning.
Globull Warming reduction is a joke without substantial changes in the attitudes of the U.N., China, India and Russia.
Corn on the cobb is better that corn off the cob.
Is the “Catcher in the Rye” not a good book? I very much enjoyed it.
Did anyone else catch who the catcher in the rye was?
Chicken egg size increases two fold after molting.
Praise be to neros neptune
The titanic sails at dawn
And everybodys shouting
Which side are you on?
And ezra pound and t. s. eliot
Fighting in the captains tower
While calypso singers laugh at them
And fishermen hold flowers
Between the windows of the sea
Where lovely mermaids flow
And nobody has to think too much
About desolation row
“Did anyone else catch who the catcher in the rye was?”
Yogi Berra?
I thought there was this passage toward the end of the book, where Holden is imagining what sort of existence would give him a sense of purpose, and he’s describing a rye field on the edge of the cliff, and a bunch of kids who can’t see over the top of the rye are straying toward the edge, and his job is to catch them before they go over. Wasn’t that the deal? Been 20 years since I read that book.
GO,
If duct tape fails you, the next resort is plumber’s epoxy putty.
that stuff rocks.
I thought Catcther in the Rye was a widely regarded to be pretty important American novel, wasn’t it? I’m guessing Katherine just disses it because anti-establishment things make her uncomfortable.
It shares the same stylistic lineage as Huck Finn in that the written words are actually structured the way people talk, complete with modern slang/vernacular. Plus the protagonist narrator is a youth.
Hi, all,
d_a_r, good point about style. I haven’t read Catcher since high school (47 years ago) but I remember not liking it, and asking myself, “What’s the point of this?” Rather like The House of the Seven Gables — I kept waiting for something to happen.
I have heard of people saying that Huck Finn is racist (and probably Mark Twain was too) because of the “N-word.” This is nonsense: the book is set in the pre-war South, and that’s the way people talked then.
FC,
We’re in violent agreement about Huck Finn not being a racist text. It’s the polar opposite of that, really, if you ask me. Although some people who don’t get parody and satire might not realize it.
I also think it’s a meditation on the age old question of whether human beings are more good in their natural state than they are in society.
I remember not liking [Catcher in the Rye, and asking myself, “What’s the point of this?”
I had the same thought while reading it, although I recall thinking that maybe the book was trying to get me to rebel against the reality that for many individuals, modern life itself in fact doesn’t have much of a point.
Although some people who don’t get parody and satire might not realize it.
The hyper-pc crowd doesn’t find humor funny.
“The hyper-pc crowd doesn’t find humor funny.”
The progressives, laughing makes them feel guilty.
“Later, obsessions with multiculturalism, racism and sexism made politically correct books like Alice Walker’s “The Color Purple” de rigueur.
Now we’re taking another giant leap away from greatness toward mediocrity.”
Okay, KK, you’re holding on to the edge too tightly. You need a new grip on reality.
Last time I checked Alice Walker was an author to be taken seriously.
Katherine seems to consider her addition to school curriculum somehow frivelous, like she was no deeper than the author of “Sweet Valley High” books.
Bet she doesn’t like Toni Morrsion either.
Wonder why that is?
“The hyper-pc crowd doesn’t find humor funny. ”
Not only that, but the mere sight or sound of the word “N—-R” makes their sphincters tighten so painfully that they want it to stop, regardless of the context of its use. Some sorta Skinnerian conditioned response thing. Hence the perrenial campaigns that some activist parents go on to ban Huck Finn somewhere in some American school at any given time. Even though it remains to this day one of the best indictments of the racism at the heart of American culture ever written.
We don’t want Katherine OR the hyper-PC crowd dictating our reading lists in the public schools, if you ask me.
“I thought there was this passage toward the end of the book, where Holden is imagining what sort of existence would give him a sense of purpose, and he’s describing a rye field on the edge of the cliff, and a bunch of kids who can’t see over the top of the rye are straying toward the edge, and his job is to catch them before they go over.”
DAR
Correct. But in the end his little sister, Phoebe, turns out to be Holden’s “catcher in the rye”. She was the only thing that he had in life to keep him from going off the deep end, over the cliff.
At least thats what I got from it.
GO,
I think you are right, now that I think about it.
Like I said it’s been 20 years since the one time I read it. Lot of cobwebs to clear away to think about that one.
in other news, the british prime minister addressed the u.n. this morning, declaring that the british empire does not recognize the illegal occupation of her 13 colonies and threatens military action.
he was quickly followed by a representative from the iraqouis and pequot nations, demanding the british return the illegally occupied indian nations at once, and demanded the british take back their smelly blankets and trinkets….. a fast paced day at the u.n.
“That said, can you do me a favor and stand next to the edge of that big trench?”
Of course, Mr. dubble underscore egghead. You should know that. I’m a patriot and I want to do whatever I can to help President Obama. He wants to punish the uninsured, and I’m prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for my country.
“I only regret that I have but one life to give my country.” - Nathan Hale and leland.
““I only regret that I have but one life to give my country.” - Nathan Hale and leland. ”
and, i bet nathan was also uninsured
“To leland in particular, this is important stuff. maybe now is not the time for wild over the top satirical rhetoric, not when something good actually could come of this all that gets you insured.” - Mr dubble underscore
I have paid in over $100,000 in premiums, but I never received anything for it because my deductible was always too high.
At my age, I’m not going to get an affordable premium that covers anything. NOBODY is proposing to do something like that.
I might get a $3,800 fine though. That’s one Democrat proposal. Obama seems to like that idea. The fine would still be quite a bit less than my premiums, so I’ll take the fine.
If I quit going to the doctor entirely, plus quit my prescription, I might be able to pay for the fine.
What I have written in this post is not wild over the top rhetoric ( I acknowledge I may have uttered some a time or two). For me, it is the real world.
Liberal indoctrination in our government run public schools!
Kids forced to worship Barack Hussein Obama:
“I have paid in over $100,000 in premiums, but I never received anything for it because my deductible was always too high.”
A little quick math leads me to conclude that’s not an exaggeration. But maybe a change in perspective would help you feel better. If in your years you’d gotten so sick you needed to tap that insurance and incur insurance-paid expenses in excess of the deductible and the premiums both, would you feel luckier then? Would it be worth it to get out more than you put in? my dad has been doing chemo for a year. He’s gotten more out of insurance than he paid in. Wanna trade places?
I seldom exceed my deductible either. I usually pay more into my health insurance than I get out. But I think health insurance is a bet you don’t actually want to win. In a way I am subsidizing that 400 pound guy down the hall but I’d rather be me than him.
If you get hit and injured by an idiot cell phone addict car driver whilst crossing the street, won’t you be glad our state compels all auto owners to carry insurance?
So may be the answer with health insurance. If you show up at HCMC uninsured with major trauma they will treat you, and the property taxes of people like me will pay for it. Maybe it should be compulsory that everyone is insured. I wouldn’t get behind a plan like that though, unless there was a public option with a sliding scale premium based on one’s means. I also wouldn’t want the Man running around looking for uninsured people to fine. More like, garnish their wages for a good long time if they show up at a hospital uninsured.
Don’t get too excited about something that’s not passed into law yet, either. Who knows what’s going to land on O’s desk in the end, really?
I’m surprised this isn’t a bigger story.
www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/092409dnmetbombarrest.1b177db8b.html
Look at that D2. Stopping terrorist acts with Obama in office…
Give thanks for the FBI and the good work they’ve done thus far.
“Look at that D2. Stopping terrorist acts with Obama in office…”
D.J., Obama has been occupying the White House for only a few months. It’s going to take some time for him to undo the Bush policies which kept us safe from Islamic terror.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. –That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these STATES; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of THE UNITED STATES is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Lutherans opposed to ELCA vote weigh future.
New rules about gay clergy have boosted interest in Lutheran CORE group’s national meeting: They’ll discuss leaving the ELCA.
Good deal! I was hoping that the common sense portion of the ELCA which still believes in the Bible’s teachings, not Adam and Steve, would revolt instead of taking it up the chute from the leftist infiltrators who have a gay marriage agenda.
Steve,
I thanks for your input in the “John Lennon” video a few days back. Man, that guy is a great impersonator!
anytime d2. he did a good job.
Hi, all,
Well said, stevek; subtle, too. Thanks.
thank you fc. i find those in charge of the present 1 party system, which hides behind a multi party facade, no less unsurpers than george of old. and our present situation in need of more, not less, struggle for freedom and individual rights than our founding fathers.
“and, i bet nathan was also uninsured”
At least he was well hung.
Anybody out there? Hello….
“A penny saved is a penny taxed.”
-Barak Hussein Obama
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Katherine Kersten writes a weekly column for the Star Tribune's Sunday Opinion Exchange section. The column covers a broad range of topics reflecting her experiences and interests.
In this blog, she will address many of the same issues, albeit in quicker, less formal fashion, along with pointing readers to other sources of interesting online commentary and coverage.
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- Political Pilgrims – Paul Hollander
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