Overcoming economic woes with “Monopoly” money and flatulence fees
December 9th, 2008 – 9:00 AMWe’ve tried just about everything to get out of this economic mess.
First, there was the flood of tax rebate checks this past summer, but things only got worse. The gargantuan federal bailout plan is throwing tons of taxpayer money at the nation’s financial system, but banks and other lenders still seem comatose. Now auto companies and other corporate beggars are making pilgrimages to Washington, kowtowing and rattling their tin cups.
Even government wants a bailout from government. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is leading the line of state mendicants, hoping for a handout for the mother of all imbalanced bank accounts — that of the State of California.
But none of these schemes seems to be making a dent.
Some folks are surveying the wreckage and thinking outside the box.
Take these folks from Milwaukee, profiled recently in the Chicago Tribune:
Residents from the Milwaukee neighborhoods of Riverwest and East Side are scheduled to meet Wednesday to discuss printing their own money. The idea is that the local cash could be used at neighborhood stores and businesses, thus encouraging local spending.
The result, supporters hope, would be a bustling local economy, even as the rest of the nation deals with a recession.
As usual, there’s a “community organizer” behind this hare-brained scheme (no offense to the President-elect):
‘You have all these people who have local currency, and they’re going to spend it at local stores,’ said Sura Faraj, a community organizer who is helping spearhead the plan. ‘They can’t spend it at the Wal-Mart or the Home Depot, but they can spend it at their local hardware store or their local grocery store.’
Sure, but where’s the “local grocery store” owner going to spend this funny money? Will he be able to restock his shelves by convincing his wholesaler downtown accept it? Fat chance. The owner will be lucky to convince the local street musicians to take it.
No, printing monopoly money won’t cure our crisis.
Maybe we should look instead at creative tax solutions—something that will cure Schwarzenegger-sized budget problems, but without income tax increases (which penalize wealth creation) or sales tax increases (which penalize consumer spending).
The Environmental Protection Agency is ahead of the curve on this one. The folks there have crunched the numbers and come up with a revenue source with huge potential: A tax on “belching and gaseous cows and hogs,” reports the Associated Press.
This proposal comes hot on the heels of a U.S. Supreme Court decision declaring that “greenhouse gasses emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.”
I’ll bet you didn’t know those quaint farms dotting the Minnesota countryside are responsible for melting polar ice caps and otherwise threatening life as we know it. Livestock farms emit more than 100 tons of carbon every year, according to the EPA.
Farmers are complaining that these “emissions” taxes will put them out of business, reports the AP:
The executive vice president of the Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation, Ken Hamilton, estimated the fee would cost owners of a modest-sized cattle ranch $30,000 to $40,000 a year. He said he has talked to a number of livestock owners about the proposals, and ‘all have said if the fees were carried out, it would bankrupt them.’
Hamilton might be facing a strong head-wind on this one, though. The flatulence fee would raise enough money for a slew of Obama bridges, pay proper homage to the global warming gods, and appease the animal rights folks (they’re pushing hard for the proposal, says the AP) — all at the same time.
On the EPA proposal, I’m with Perry Mobley, who directs the Alabama Farmers Federation’s beef division. In Mobley’s words, “Who comes up with this kind of stuff?”
225 Responses to "Overcoming economic woes with “Monopoly” money and flatulence fees"
Who does come up with this stuff? Cows have been farting as long as they’ve been around and the world hasn’t melted yet. How can you tax a 100% natural thing? Is GO going to be taxed for his flatulence too? Perhaps we will soon be taxed depending on how deeply we breath? Joggers have to pay more because when they run they have to breathe more?
On the EPA proposal, I’m with Perry Mobley, who directs the Alabama Farmers Federation’s beef division. In Mobley’s words, “Who comes up with this kind of stuff?”
Someone who knows that trying to end farm subsidies (aka Red State Soci@lism) is political suicide.
This proposal comes hot on the heels of a U.S. Supreme Court decision declaring that “greenhouse gasses emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.”
I think the word you’re looking for is methane, a gas that has 21x the heat trapping effect of the same weight in C02.
Sounds so much more innocuous when you call it “belching and flatulence.”
And our “fically responsible”, everybody needs to cut expenses(except me) Governor is spending tax payer money to go to Israel.
“This proposal comes hot on the heels of a U.S. Supreme Court decision declaring that “greenhouse gasses emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.”
Did we really need the Supreme court to figure this one out?
I think the word you’re looking for is methane. Yep CH4, a whopping .00017% of our atmoshpere.
Yep CH4, a whopping .00017% of our atmoshpere.
Any idea what a catalyst is, and how it can affect a system in equilibrium? No, I didn’t think so.
Let the fart jokes commence.
So Dan, you think farmers should be taxed for their cows? Should they get tax breaks depending on how many trees they have on their property too?
So Dan, you think farmers should be taxed for their cows?
No, but I think we need to revisit how many billions we spend each year on farm subsidies.
No, I didn’t think so.
Well then you would be wrong, again. If I remember my chemistry right, catalysts have no effect on equilibrium.
Ok. That’s different. I thought you were in favor of fart taxes. GO would be devastated.
If you don’t think methane contributes to the warming of the atmosphere you don’t know your science.
That said,
Practical questions:
Does anyone know what the average cattle ranch emits in methane?
How much nethane is there in the whole world? Is there more than there used to be?
Anyone know what percentage of global warming is attributed to incresed methane vs. increased carbon?
and what percentage of that global methane volume is produced by cows? I’ve heard the world’s insects collectively produce more methane with their activity than mammals do.
If as this Ken Hamilton guy asserts the proposed tax would cost a given farmer 30K - 40K, it sounds to my fuzzy thinkng that the fee is disproportionately large compared to one farm’s contribution to the overall volume of methane in the world.
I think the biggest environmental problem caused by agriculture as we practice it today is all the nitrogen runoff (fertilizer and feedlot poop) that winds up in our rivers and oceans.
There’s a huge patch of dead sea bottom where the Missisippi flows into the Gulf.
One last question,
What the heck does an ill-conceived proposed environmental tax have to do with some random community’s ill-conceived musings about minting their own local currency?
I think Katherine is trying too hard to connect the dots.
“Is GO going to be taxed for his flatulence too?”
“I thought you were in favor of fart taxes. GO would be devastated.”
DJ, your gonna give me a complex.
Maybe I should trade Carbon Credits with Big Al.
I think Katherine is trying too hard to connect the dots.
Oh, but that’s her favorite pastime! Obviously you’ve forgotten about how, about two years ago, Katherine wrapped up the new Democrat-controlled congress, Nancy Pelosi and Keith Ellison into a neat holiday conspiracy package with the Flying Imams, CAIR and the Muslim Brotherhood. h-ttp://kerstenblog.startribune.com/kerstenblog/?p=71 She’s probably still panting from the effort, the poor thing….
So, do you still think Wal-Mart is so wonderful? h-ttp://www.startribune.com/local/35794569.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUs
“Let the fart jokes commence.”
Has anyone done a study of cow farts relative to the emissions of non-domestic animals. I imagine the great herds of wildebeest and other creature are ripping quite a bit of methane.
Also, relative to yesterday’s discussion, vegetarians are known to be gassier (as in, The Broccoli Fart) than meat eaters, so perhaps those health food swilling, Birkenstock clad envirofascists are part of the problem.
Chicago politics, but I have no doubt, no doubt whatsoever that Barack Obama and Rham Emmanuel are above it all.
CHICAGO - Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was arrested on Tuesday on charges that he brazenly conspired to sell or trade the U.S. Senate seat left vacant by President-elect Barack Obama to the highest bidder.
They’ve got Blagojevich’s picture out on Yahoo right now.
He’s got that Bill Clinton weepy-eyed suck-your-lips-in-over-your-teeth bad puppydog contrite look down perfect.
Clinton shoulda patented that look. Every other politicain that gets busted these days uses it. Spitzer tried but he was just too ugly to pull it off.
Man, read all the different stuff Gov. B. was trying to cook up according to the FBI affadavit. If half of it is true I think the guy has lost his mind. Balls-to-the-wall meglomania.
[…] Katherine Kersten – […]
Chicago politics, but I have no doubt, no doubt whatsoever that Barack Obama and Rham Emmanuel are above it all.
And how did Obama fit into the Pay to Play game?
In a conversation with Harris on November 11, the charges state, Blagojevich said he knew that the President-elect wanted Senate Candidate 1 for the open seat but “they’re not willing to give me anything except appreciation. [Expletive] them.”
That sounds pretty above it all to me.
Anyone seen True Today?
Um, end blockquote.
True called me earlier and told me I need to vote for Obama. Perplexing…
Wow, Katherine, this — “As usual, there’s a “community organizer” behind this hare-brained scheme (no offense to the President-elect)” — is snarky even for you.
Co2 IS Green. Plants love it. We should make more today. I did. I drove my SUV 45 miles so far.
“And how did Obama fit into the Pay to Play game?”
DD,
Hopefully not at all, but for the obvious reason that Obama is a part of the Chicago political machine, it’s Obama’s seat, and Blagojevich and Obama shared the same convict fundraiser, I’ll maintain some level of suspicion.
Has anyone done a study of cow farts relative to the emissions of non-domestic animals. I imagine the great herds of wildebeest and other creature are ripping quite a bit of methane.
The problem is that the wildebeast and all others are here naturally. It’s the evil that mankind raised an animal for his purposes, that causes the methane to be harmful to the environment. Nevermind that the earth itself release far more methane each and every day than anything our food animals produce. While methane has 20 times the greenhouse effect of co2, it’s still negligable.
The number one greenhouse gas is water vapor. It’s responsible for 98% of the greenhouse effect (other than the sun of course). So when you water you laawn, or irregate crops, you’re doing more to warm the planet, then driving a million mies a day with the SUV of your choice.
“Anyone seen True Today?”
On his way to Stockholm to score a backstage pass to the Krugman Nobel prize ceremony?
I have continued in my effort to better understand the causes of the current financial crisis and have found an article in the current issue of VANITY FAIR by Joseph E. Stiglitz which is very helpful. The summary of the article says:
“Was there any single decision which, had it been reversed, would have changed the course of history? Every decision—including decisions not to do something, as many of our bad economic decisions have been—is a consequence of prior decisions, an interlinked web stretching from the distant past into the future. You’ll hear some on the right point to certain actions by the government itself—such as the Community Reinvestment Act, which requires banks to make mortgage money available in low-income neighborhoods. (Defaults on C.R.A. lending were actually much lower than on other lending.) There has been much finger-pointing at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two huge mortgage lenders, which were originally government-owned. But in fact they came late to the subprime game, and their problem was similar to that of the private sector: their C.E.O.’s had the same perverse incentive to indulge in gambling.
The truth is most of the individual mistakes boil down to just one: a belief that markets are self-adjusting and that the role of government should be minimal. Looking back at that belief during hearings this fall on Capitol Hill, Alan Greenspan said out loud, “I have found a flaw.” Congressman Henry Waxman pushed him, responding, “In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right; it was not working.” “Absolutely, precisely,” Greenspan said. The embrace by America—and much of the rest of the world—of this flawed economic philosophy made it inevitable that we would eventually arrive at the place we are today.”
The full article can be found here:
I just got taxed.
I think it was a double.
The dogs left the room.
As for Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, if the prosecutor has a case, he should make it and help to remove a corrupt politician from an important and powerfull post.
I hope U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald has more success with the effective prosecution of corruption and getting the higher ups than he had with the Valerie Plame investigation. But, it does not matter, corruption is corruption. It should be rooted out, be it Republican, Democrat or Independant.
“If you don’t think methane contributes to the warming of the atmosphere you don’t know your science.”
Never said that dar, Just trying to add some perspective. Maybe with the new flatulences tax we can drop it to .00016% of the atmosphere.
“MINNEAPOLIS – Idaho Sen. Larry Craig has lost his latest attempt to withdraw his guilty plea in the Minneapolis airport men’s room sex sting that effectively ended his Senate career.
Craig still has the option of appealing to the Minnesota Supreme Court, and he said Tuesday he was considering future options.”
Now this guy should just come out with the truth, swallow his pride, and admit that it was more than his Senate career going down in Minneapolis.
Hopefully not at all, but for the obvious reason that Obama is a part of the Chicago political machine, it’s Obama’s seat, and Blagojevich and Obama shared the same convict fundraiser, I’ll maintain some level of suspicion.
Well, I guess I needed to spell this out then. First, the quote again:
Blagojevich said he knew that the President-elect wanted Senate Candidate 1 for the open seat but “they’re not willing to give me anything except appreciation. [Expletive] them.”
Real slowly now, 1) Obama told the Governor who he would like to see in his old Senate seat, 2) the Governor told the person he was talking to that Obama was not going to pay, and the only thing he was going to give the Governor for considering his choice of replacement was his “appreciation,” and 3) the Governor expressed his appreciation of Obama’s suggestion by telling him he could go FcK himself, not normally a sentiment expressed toward a co-conspirator.
Now do you get it?
“Maybe with the new flatulences tax we can drop it to .00016% of the atmosphere.”
Not if this household has anything to say about it ..
It’s bean and broccoli casserole for the next week!
and ..
I’m sending soem to GO.
I just need to find someone on the east cost now ..
KK must be in a less-than-conservative mode giving us this gem of an article ..
Perhaps it’s the season?
The number one greenhouse gas is water vapor. It’s responsible for 98% of the greenhouse effect (other than the sun of course). So when you water you laawn, or irregate crops, you’re doing more to warm the planet, then driving a million mies a day with the SUV of your choice.
Wow. A little science is dangerous in the hands of an idiot.
Here’s the science behind water vapor and atmospheric temperatures:
Water vapour is indeed the most dominant greenhouse gas. The radiative forcing for water is around 75 W/m2 while carbon dioxide contributes 32 W/m2 (Kiehl 1997). Water vapour is also the dominant positive feedback in our climate system and a major reason why temperature is so sensitive to changes in CO2.
Unlike external forcings such as CO2 which can be added to the atmosphere, the level of water vapour in the atmosphere is a function of temperature. Water vapour is brought into the atmosphere via evaporation - the rate depends on the ocean and air temperature and is governed by the Clausius-Clapeyron relation.
If extra water is added to the atmosphere, it condenses and falls as rain or snow within a week or two. Similarly, if somehow moisture was sucked out of the atmosphere, evaporation would restore water vapour levels to ‘normal levels’ in short time.
Water Vapour as a positive feedbackAs water vapour is directly related to temperature, it’s also a positive feedback - in fact, the largest positive feedback in the climate system (Soden 2005). As temperature rises, evaporation increases and more water vapour accumulates in the atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the water absorbs more heat, further warming the air and causing more evaporation.
How does water vapour fit in with CO2 emissions? When CO2 is added to the atmosphere, as a greenhouse gas it has a warming effect. This causes more water to evaporate and warm the air more to a higher (more or less) stabilized level. So CO2 warming has an amplified effect, beyond a purely CO2 effect.
How much does water vapour amplify CO2 warming? Without any feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 would warm the globe around 1°C. Taken on its own, water vapour feedback roughly doubles the amount of CO2 warming. When other feedbacks are included (eg - loss of albedo due to melting ice), the total warming from a doubling of CO2 is around 3°C (Held 2000).
“Now this guy should just come out with the truth, swallow his pride, and admit that it was more than his Senate career going down in Minneapolis.”
I’d have to wonder if D2 had anything to do with that wholee gig. It just seems to make sense.
“Now do you get it?”
Yes, you’re a lousy detective.
(Held 2000).
Old, old, old. That hypothesis has been debunked long ago.
“I’d have to wonder if D2 had anything to do with that wholee gig. It just seems to make sense.”
My theory is that Craig followed D2 into the bathroom, but didn’t see which stall he went into. Craig then mistakenly picked the stall with the cop. After hearing “Police!” D2 jumped on the toilet seat, so no one spotted him.
One of the things from the proposed cow fart tax in the AP story that Katherine glosses over is that it directed at large factory farm operartions. I do object to the idea of using Global Warmming and methane emissions to justify the tax. But let’s face it. Big feedlots pollute their environment. If you don’t think so try living downwind of one. I remain convinced though the things they really should be looking at to determine environmental harm is how much nitrogen comes out of these places.
There’s also the public health concern of anitbiotics that should be reserved for humans being fed in huge quantities to the animals to keep them from dying in unhealthy crowded living conditions. This is a big factor in the recent evolution of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
In these cash-tight times we should also be examining our farm subsidy programs to see how many big corporations operating enormous farms are scamming on subsidies once meant to prop up the little family operations that have all been bought out. Doing away with these subsidies would save us more money than the revenue we would get by taxing the businesses into bankruptcy.
Whatever happens, I don’t want to eat the poisonous crap the factory farms produce anyway and I don’t particularly care if they are taxed out of existence.
I doubt this particular fart tax proposal is going to go anywhere so I’m not sure why Katherine is even inviting us to waste our time arguing about it, especially considering we could be arguing about what to do about the State budget.
At the very least, in light of recent rulings, one would think Katherine would be reaffirming her support for Rachael Paulose and Wal-Mart.
Increase in water vapor since the 1970’s can be attirbuted to 2 factors, an increase in solar activity, and major increase in the use of spray irrigation of crops. According to Cargill, 70% of the world’s water usage is to irregate crops.
To say that bring carbon out of the ground and making into carbon dioxide is bad, but bring water our of the ground and spraying into the air is not, is where scientists have shown the baises of their research goals.
It would be politically incorrect to criticize something as natural as water in regards to the temperature increases, but somehow something as natural as co2 is perfectly alright.
There is absolutely no way that our minor contributions of co2 and methane, are a: even remotely compare to nature’s production of these items, and b: have enough of an impact to raise the temperature of the planet by any measureable amounts.
Solar activity, when matched with our global temperatures, however, matches completely to one another. We are experiencing this a this moment. We are set for a terrible winter, during the biggest solar minimum we’ve seen in some time. Al Gore fails. If co2 and methane were even close to as bad as him and his ilk claimed, we’d be having a nice normal winter.
See the correlations between sun and climate for your self:
ttp://www.tmgnow.com/repository/solar/lassen1.html
Increase in water vapor since the 1970’s can be attirbuted to 2 factors, an increase in solar activity, and major increase in the use of spray irrigation of crops.
Solar activity and irrigation? HAHAHAHAHA!!! You are an idiot. If you had bothered reading the science AT ALL you’d see that the level of water vapor is a function of tempurature. The atmosphere will hold as much water vapor as it can hold for the temperature, and then when the temperature fluctuates we get… wait for it… wait for it…
RAIN. (pounds head on desk)
There is absolutely no way that our minor contributions of co2 and methane, are a: even remotely compare to nature’s production of these items, and b: have enough of an impact to raise the temperature of the planet by any measureable amounts.
Wrong on both counts.
What the science says…
Manmade CO2 emissions are much smaller than natural emissions. However, the CO2 that nature emits (from the ocean and vegetation) is balanced by natural absorptions (again by the ocean and vegetation). Human CO2 emissions upsets the natural balance.Land plants absorb about 440 Gt of carbon per year and the ocean absorbs about 330 Gt. This keeps atmospheric CO2 levels in rough balance.
As for human CO2 emissions, about 40% is being absorbed, mostly by the oceans. The rest remains in the atmosphere. As a consequence, atmospheric CO2 is at its highest level over the past 800,00 years (Brook 2008). A natural change of 100ppm takes 5,000 to 20,000 years. The recent increase of 100ppm has taken just 120 years.
How can we know the rising CO2 levels are due to human activity? The carbon atom has several different isotopes (eg - different number of neutrons). Carbon 12 has 6 neutrons, carbon 13 has 7 neutrons. Plants have a lower C13/C12 ratio than in the atmosphere. If rising atmospheric CO2 comes fossil fuels, the C13/C12 should be falling. Indeed this is what is occuring (Ghosh 2003) and the trend correlates with the trend in global emissions.
While the ocean absorbs around half of human CO2 emissions, empirical observations reveal the oceans are losing their ability to absorb CO2. A study released in May 2007 found that the Southern Ocean has reached its saturation point, diminishing its ability to absorb more CO2 (Quéré 2007). Similarly, CO2 absorption by the North Atlantic has dropped even more dramatically, halving over the past decade (Schuster 2007). If this trend continues, it potentially leads to a positive feedback where the oceans take up less CO2 leading to CO2 rising faster in the atmosphere leading to increased global warming.
www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm
“Human CO2 emissions upsets the natural balance.”
Wait? You mean humans arent part of nature?
I could buy that 70% of the world’s fresh water is used to irrigate crops. Impossible that 70% of the world’s water coulf be sprayed on fields.
My understanding is most of the water in the atmosphere evaporates out of the oceans, which are significantly bigger portions of the Earth’s surface area than arable cropland. Relative humidity stays fairly constant but the atmosphere can hold more water if it’s warmer. Then it can get warmer yet because water is a greenhouse has after all. If we could sequester all the additional carbon in the atmosphere that wasn’t there in preindustrial times, there WOULD be a net cooling effect and therefore there would be less water in the atmosphere too.
See the correlations between sun and climate for your self:
So 2000 is “old, old, old” but you’re relying on a study from 1992? So lets look deeper into your own study:
As supplier of almost all the energy in Earth’s climate, the sun certainly has a strong influence on climate change. Consequently there have been many studies examining the link between solar variations and global temperatures.
The most commonly cited study by skeptics is a study by scientists from Finland and Germany (this would be your linked study) that finds the sun has been more active in the last 60 years than anytime in the past 1150 years (Usoskin 2005). They also found temperatures closely correlate to solar activity.
However, a crucial finding of the study was the correlation between solar activity and temperature ended around 1975. At that point, temperatures rose while solar activity stayed level. This led them to conclude “during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have another source.”
You read that right. The study most quoted by skeptics actually concluded the sun can’t be causing global warming. Ironically, the evidence that establishes the sun’s close correlation with the Earth’s temperature in the past also establishes it’s blamelessness for global warming today.
www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
Wait? You mean humans arent part of nature?
It said natural, not nature. What kind of pedant are you, anyway?
Borndem, running out of internet trying to find a counter argument to support his ignorance….
No where in the article I posted is this stated. THis however is:
70-90 years oscillations in global mean temperature are correlated with corresponding oscillations in solar activity. Whereas the solar influence is obvious in the data from the last four centuries, signatures of human activity are not yet distinguishable in the observations.
Here’s the data is was looking for which was provided this year:
ttp://co2sceptics.com/news.php?id=1396
I’d recommend that everyone read the entire series. AGW is debunked.
Whereas the solar influence is obvious in the data from the last four centuries, signatures of human activity are not yet distinguishable in the observations.
25 year old data. Do try to keep up. You obviously never did go to my link and look at the most recently updated graph. Here, I’ll give you the conclusion again:
However, a crucial finding of the study was the correlation between solar activity and temperature ended around 1975. At that point, temperatures rose while solar activity stayed level. This led them to conclude “during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have another source.”
Maybe the bold will help your reading comprehension (but I doubt it).
Your article on water vapor only addresses the natural methods for water vapor to get into the atmosphere. While temperature determines how much water vapor the air can hold, increases in water vapor due to irregation, wethen lawn sprayers or farming, drive the vapor content to higher levels, which we all can agree, creates higher temperatures. In other words, the forcing effect of the vapor allows for an increase in heat when combined with sunshine, causing the temperature to rise, providing further capability for the air to hold more moisture. When does the cycle end? As you stated, when the air becomes too saturated, either through a cool front, or the sun setting, causing dew throughout the night.
If co2 were actually responsible for maintaining any warmth, rather than vapor, we never see morning dew. As the sun sets, and the solar warmth of the day dispates back into space, the air cools, and dew forms. This couldn’t happen if increased co2 was keeping us warm. The fact is that vapor keeps us warm, and it’s why the low temperature NEVER drops below the dew point. Use of water has increased vapor content in the air over the past four decades, combined with increased solar output, to make us warmer, and our low temperatures higher. The higher the low, the quicker the sun can recover the next day.
This is why despite high summer temps, our winters in this warm period are still plenty nasty in this region. The irregation stops, the atmosphere wrings out in the fall, (note the numerous falls floods over the years), and the low temps mean low dew points, and more work for less sunlight to bring us to livable temperatures.
I’d recommend that everyone read the entire series
I got into the first page and already his graph shows that Total Solar Iradiance has been level since 1961, a detail he calls “entirely irrelevant and misleading.” Yeah, good science there. No wonder his opening line states, “The first five articles from Mr Wilde were received with a great deal of interest throughout the Co2 Sceptic community.” Yeah, all five of them.
He also says, “If global temperatures were to resume warming despite a reduction in solar activity and/or a negative PDO then the alarmist position might be vindicated.”
Newsflash, temps HAVE been rising, and at faster rates than have been predicted. Ice masses globally are breaking up much faster than predicted. The IPCC’s predictions haven’t even kept up with recently measured increases.
In all 3 ENSO-adjusted data-sets, 2006 is the hottest year on record and the trend from 1998 to 2007 is that of warming.
www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-stopped-in-1998.htm
AGW hasn’t been debunked, but your ability to make a coherent argument has sure taken a hit.
drive the vapor content to higher levels, which we all can agree, creates higher temperatures.
You have this backwards. It’s the higher temperatures that allow for higher levels of water vapor.
If co2 were actually responsible for maintaining any warmth, rather than vapor, we never see morning dew.
And if my grandmother had balls she’s be my grandfather.
When there’s more CO2 in the atmosphere, the earth absorbs more heat. Shortwave radiation from the sun passes straight through our atmosphere and is absorbed by the earth. The earth reemits it as longwave (infrared) radiation which is partially absorbed by atmospheric CO2. This is the greenhouse effect. CO2 lets energy in, doesn’t let as much get out.
Climate sensitivity is defined as how much global temperature increase if we doubled CO2. Studies of past CO2 and temperature records have helped quantify how sensitive our climate is to changes in CO2.
Temperature and various forcings (including CO2) over the past few centuries shows a climate sensitivity between 1.5 to 6.2°C (Hegerl 2006). One study combines the results from various paleontological studies to narrow climate sensitivity to around 2.5 to 3.5°C (Annan 2006). Basically, multiple studies covering many different periods of earth’s history confirm that when CO2 is doubled, global temperatures go up around 3°C.
Search around on the internet and you can find people saying the Holocaust never happened.
You can find people, scientists even, who claim that AIDS doesn’t really exist.
You can find all sorts of things to fallaciously validate whatever presupposed contrarian notion you are trying to support. The Internet is everyone’s proof that no one is alone in their thinking, not even perverts and crackpots and kooks.
I suspect that BD has started with the presuppostion that Global Warming is bunk and has spent most of his online research time looking for things or parts of things that support his presupposition.
I suspect his presupposition is tied to a psychological desire not to change his consumption patterns, especially not at some political opponents’ behest. Not even if it’s in his best interest to do so.
I’m in the middle of the road on this global warming thing. I think humans are contributing to it but I am skeptical of the models and the dire predicitions. I’m doubly skeptical of this whole carbon trading scheme because it seems like just the next new investment bubble of sketchy BS securities for greedy people to speculate on and crash the market with. Yet I don’t like the idea of blithely edging closer and closer to the tipping point just because we don’t know where the tipping point is. The world is getting hotter folks.
Trouble is, some people are motivated not by the pure desire to do what’s practical to keep our planet habitable but the peevish desire to make those people they don’t like do something they don’t want to do, i.e. to achieve partisan political victory. You get all this political posturing around things that won’t really help, like taxing farts on cows.
I conducted my own global warming experiment a couple of years ago, primary goal being to
determine how my personal vehicle emissions were affecting the climate. It involved
running my vehicle continuosly for extended periods, then taking average temperature measurements.
I saw little effect initially, during the Minnapolis-Chicago phase, but by the time I’d
taken my final measurements in Miami the average temp had gone up over 40 degrees. It’s gotten worse since then. today it’s a mind blowing, Al Gore at the top of the scaffold, 83 degrees without any massive water vapor clouds to keep the heat in.
Trouble is, some people are motivated not by the pure desire to do what’s practical to keep our planet habitable.
dar, If the goal is to keep the planet habitable shouldn’t we be pumping C02 into the air as fast as we can? An ice age will make all the dire warming predictions look like child’s play.
Ice masses globally are breaking up much faster than predicted. The IPCC’s predictions haven’t even kept up with recently measured increases.
This is demonstrably false. Artic ice is growing very rapidly. It’s going to be a very interesting season of Deadlisest Catch.
Also, the Wilkins Ice Shelf, as an example is a joke. This area continually builds ice, in a bridge like formation between islands, and then eventually, due the weight of the ice increases, the whole thing collapses every so many years based upon varying conitions as it has for centuries. If the islands in the are didn’t exists, we’d have no such thing as the Wilkins to talk about.
And yet it’s a poster child of misinformation from the Gorski’s like DD.
I suspect that BD has started with the presuppostion that Global Warming is bunk
Close. My presupposition is that a friggin’ dope like Al Gore cannot be right. 20 foot sea level rises. Talk about methane increases. the about of BS he’s shoveling is intolerable.
Al Gore understands very little about climate science. But what he and Billy C did understand is how to make money from a bogus cause, which he has championed entirely in the name of making money.
Enron and BP CEO’s met with which administration to discuss how to bilk the public out of money with rent schemes for carbon? That’s right, Billy C and Alvin Gore. Al’s “movie/propaganda slideshow” is a tool to get you to buy into an unprovable theory, all by prefacing with the false statement that the science is settled. It’s not, because it’s wrong. 100% incorrect. There are thousands of papers that state this. There’s are many books. Peer-reviewed. THe science is settled all right. And that science states that AGW is bogus. And Al gore is a fraud.
“Trouble is, some people are motivated not by the pure desire to do what’s practical to keep our planet habitable but the peevish desire to make those people they don’t like do something they don’t want to do, i.e. to achieve partisan political victory. You get all this political posturing around things that won’t really help, like taxing farts on cows.”
Exactly, and that’s my issue with global warming. Real science
is being replaced with political posturing.
AGW hasn’t been debunked, but your ability to make a coherent argument has sure taken a hit.
By posting crap from a pro AGW blog site, you’ve given me a hit? Hardly. 30,000+ scientists recently signed a petition stating that the science is not settled. That Al Gore is wrong. co2 cannot due any of the things that Al Gore claims are possible. None.
This is demonstrably false. Artic ice is growing very rapidly.
Not. Even. Close.
Arctic sea ice has declined steadily since the 1970s. However, the 2007 summer saw a dramatic drop in sea ice extent, smashing the previous record minimum set in 2005 by 20%. This has been widely cited as proof of global warming. However, a popular mantra by climatologists is not to read too much into short term fluctuations - climate change is more concerned with long term trends. So how much of Arctic melt is due to natural variability and how much was a result of global warming?
Global warming affects Arctic sea ice in various ways. Warming air temperatures have been observed over the past 3 decades by drifting buoys and radiometer satellites (Rigor 2000, Comiso 2003). Downward longwave radiation has increased, as expected when air temperature, water vapor and cloudiness increases (Francis 2006). More ocean heat is being transported into Arctic waters (Shimada 2006).
As sea ice melts, positive feedbacks enhance the rate of sea ice loss. Positive ice-albedo feedback has become a dominant factor since the mid-to-late 1990s (Perovich 2007). Older perennial ice is thicker and more likely to survive the summer melt season. It reflects more sunlight and transmits less solar radiation to the ocean. Satellite measurements have found over the past 3 decades, the amount of perennial sea ice has been steadily declining (Nghiem 2007). Consequently, the mean thickness of ice over the Arctic Ocean has thinned from 2.6 meters in March 1987 to 2.0 meters in 2007 (Stroeve 2008).
Global warming has a clearly observed, long term effect on Arctic sea ice. In fact, although climate models predict that Arctic sea ice will decline in response to greenhouse gas increases, the current pace of retreat at the end of the melt season is exceeding the models’ forecasts by around a factor of 3 (Stroeve 2007).
www.skepticalscience.com/Arctic-sea-ice-melt-natural-or-man-made.html
Also, the Wilkins Ice Shelf, as an example is a joke.
No, your attempts at rebutting science are a joke.
Most of the Antarctic mass loss comes from Western Antarctica with a mass loss of 148 ± 21 km3/year. The mass loss from East Antarctica is 0 ± 56 km3/year. Because of its relatively large uncertainty, it’s uncertain whether East Antarctica is in mass balance or not.
Why is Western Antarctica losing ice mass while East Antarctica is relatively steady. The hole in the ozone layer above the South Pole causes cooling in the stratosphere. This increases circular winds around the continent preventing warmer air from reaching east Antarctica and the Antarctic plateau. The flip side of this is the Antarctic Peninsula in Western Antarctica has “experienced some of the fastest warming on Earth, nearly 3°C over the last half-century”.
And here’s a bonus science piece on Greenland:
I’ve just updated the Greenland is losing ice page as a new paper an@lysing satellite data on Greenland mass change has been released (Wouters 2008). The Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) measures changes in the Earth’s gravity field and found that from February 2003 to January 2008, Greenland lost mass at a rate of 179 Gigatonnes per year. This is equivalent to a global sea level rise of 0.5mm per year. The rate is also increasing over time, suggesting an acceleration of mass loss.
And yet it’s a poster child of misinformation from…
It’s called “Projection.” You should see a shrink about that.
Now remember Patrick Fitzgerald is a good honest guy. I don’t want to hear otherwise from some people.
I hope Candidate 5 is Jesse Jackson Jr so we can put an end to that legendary Bull sh^t.
But really just remember now Fitzgerald is non-political.
“Now remember Patrick Fitzgerald is a good honest guy. I don’t want to hear otherwise from some people.”
He is .. I remember that time I was doing shots with him and DC. We got all sorts of messed up and then Pat decided to let us in on some stuff ..
.. wait ..I’m not supposed to say that.
Rezko and Blagojevich and these clowns start getting the pressure put on them they are going to turn. Then we’ll find out how great the great Obama is.
There is NO WAY….NO WAY you come out of Chicago politics without having some dirt. No way do you get to be senator with Obamas limited experience without trading favors and even money.
But lets remember Patrick Fitzgerald is a good honest guy.
By posting crap from a…
Because you’re scientifically illiterate doesn’t make scientific data “crap.”
30,000+ scientists recently signed…
The “Petition Project” has been debunked so many times by so many sources I wouldn’t know where to begin. Faked names, unrelated sciences, ticked off scientists demanding their names be removed. Wow. That you’re even bringing that piece of garbage up shows you’re even further out of touch with reality than I would have guessed earlier.
“It said natural, not nature. What kind of pedant are you, anyway?”
Dont be an idiot. Are you saying ‘natural’ doesnt mean part of ‘nature’?
If humans are part of nature anything we do is inherently natural.
“Faked names”
Like Acorn?
“There is NO WAY….NO WAY you come out of Chicago politics without having some dirt.”
Absolutley no way you get elected President without some dirt.
Accept for Carter. He was clean.
“Change to Win Endorses Barack Obama for President”
“Change to Win”
Interesting…….isn’t it?
But lets remember Patrick Fitzgerald is a good honest guy.
Sorry but its all this BS I’ve been hearing about Obama for the last year. “Different kind of Politician, Save the world” and all this other BS. Another Bobby Kennedy and all this teary eyed Bull Sh^t. What a scam the whole thing was.
Lets watch the press because it is THEIR JOB to make a connection. And if there isn’t a clear one they still need to bring it up. Preferable bringing it up day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day
Hey Wolfs off topic here. Get back on the Gov of Illinois…damn it.
“30,000+ scientists recently signed a petition stating that the science is not settled.”
BornDemocrate,
If they weren’t the looney left’s scientists then its weather.
Here’s how it works:
One severe Hurricaine season = Globull Warming.
One severe cold winter = weather.
One severe tornado season = Globull Warming.
One 200%+ mountain snow pack = weather.
one severe drought season = Globull warming.
One severe heavy rain season = weather.
One fat washed up has been senator/VP with a 3rd grade level, Drama queen plagerized and fact manupilated slide show = Golbull Warming.
so 30,000 scientists stating this issue is not settled = what the Goreists call uneducated morons talking about weather…….
Dont be an idiot. Are you saying ‘natural’ doesnt mean part of ‘nature’?
What are you talking about? The original statement you had such a problem with was, “Human CO2 emissions upsets the natural balance” because, as you put it, “You mean humans arent part of nature?”
Are you suggesting that any compound produced by humans is “natural” because humans are a part of nature.
And listen I see Russerts kid on the Today show and NBC News. I see this talk about Carolina Kennedy yet I fail to hear the word “cronyism” as much as I use to before.
“Are you suggesting that any compound produced by humans is “natural””
No its weather
Just because the uneducated right doesn’t understand the difference between weather and climate they automatically assume nobody else does either.
But straw, now THAT they understand.
“Are you suggesting that any compound produced by humans is “natural” because humans are a part of nature.”
Yes. Nature made us.
“Just because the uneducated right doesn’t understand the difference between weather and climate they automatically assume nobody else does either.”
Oh Bull Crap
I don’t think people realize all this fuss is over .0001 some degree. And in fact that can’t even be proven.
Down Dumb the gig is up. If you haven’t notice the last few winters here have been as normal as they ever where.
Sorry but its all this BS I’ve been hearing about Obama for the last year. “Different kind of Politician, Save the world” and all this other BS. Another Bobby Kennedy and all this teary eyed Bull Sh^t. What a scam the whole thing was.
Lets watch the press because it is THEIR JOB to make a connection.
Oh oh, looks like the press did make a connection between Obama and the Blagjoveich scandal:
The governor, accused of seeking cash for the political appointment of Obama’s Senate replacement, is not a close associate of the President-elect. Indeed, in the affidavit, Blagojevich called Obama a “m@therf@cker” for wanting him to appoint an official that the governor either did not like or wouldn’t receive money from. Local news reports, meanwhile, suggest that it was Obama chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel who blew the whistle on the governor.
Down Dumb the gig is up. If you haven’t notice the last few winters here have been as normal as they ever where.
“Just because the uneducated right doesn’t understand the difference between weather and climate they automatically assume nobody else does either.”
Oh Bull Crap
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Whew, if you weren’t real I’d have to make you up.
“Just because the uneducated right doesn’t understand the difference between weather and…………Zzzzzzzzzz*frap*zzzzzzzzz
I don’t think people realize all this fuss is over .0001 some degree. And in fact that can’t even be proven.
Shorter tiny: (fingers in ears) LALALALALALALALALA….
Lets not stop digging Dan. But make sure you spread it out a bit. Lay off the Huffenton Post and try some other sources.
I see pictures of Obama shaking Blagojevich hand. Plus I hear Obama has praised Blagojevich.
Hey whats Good for the goose is good for the …….
Lets not switch to some new rules now.
Hey GO, I recognize you. You were the one in science class sleeping in the back row.
Shame about that failing grade though.
Now, now downtown Danno,
Your frustration and inability to reason is showing. Just reach on down there and give those panties a tug when they get all bunched up like that.
Just reach on down there and give those panties a tug when they get all bunched up like that.
Dan: 0
GO: 1
Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. met with Gov. Blagojevich for 90 minutes Monday and said he left feeling confident in the governor’s selection process for Obama’s replacement, according to the Tribune:
“I am convinced that the governor has a very thoughtful process that he has put in place and is wrestling and weighing a number of issues in this enormous decision that he has to make,” Jackson said. “Today, I leave confident that the governor has put in place processes and that his interview process for this position is thoughtful.”
Oh plus the promise of a half Mil…..
“Lets not switch to some new rules now. ”
Rules?
I want to discuss what KK’s article is about….
Pre-poop or farts!
Why is it that this blog never stays on topic?
Tiny .. did you let one massive one rip about 12 hours after surgery?
Cuz the last 3 times they did that to me I let one out that should’ve made the warning sirens go off in the county.
Then I was constipated for like 4 days.
That sucked.
I wonder what that does to the climate?
“Your frustration and inability to reason is showing. Just reach on down there and give those panties a tug when they get all bunched up like that.”
See, this is another reason to go commando. Nobody can tell you to do that.
“Then I was constipated for like 4 days.”
Seven days of MY hospital stay. I had to lie about just so I could go home.
I’d describe the eighth day, but I’d probably get blog murdered.
“I’d describe the eighth day, but I’d probably get blog murdered. ”
It was then you had sympathy for a mother giving birth right?
“If you have been following the Tony Rezko corruption trial, several names are mentioned over and over. Obama, Stuart Levine and Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich are mentioned in the same sentence as Rezko and Chicago and Illinois corruption.”
Are Woodard and Bernstein going to be up all night trying their hardest to get the truth?
How about 60 minutes?
How about the great New Times?
“Why is it that this blog never stays on topic?”
Your guess is as good as mine
ttp://gbcghana.com/news/23881detail.html
“Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. met with Gov. Blagojevich for 90 minutes Monday and said he left feeling confident in the governor’s selection process for Obama’s replacement, according to the Tribune”
Illinois, the only state in the union where the governor’s office has a metal toilet.
“Illinois, the only state in the union where the governor’s office has a metal toilet.”
And an ATM at the door.
I see pictures of Obama shaking Blagojevich hand.
aHA! Photographic evidence of two politicians from the same state and the same party shaking hands, well that proves everything. May as well lock them both up right now.
Or an amnesty box where you can drop your crack pipe before you get booked.
“I’d describe the eighth day, but I’d probably get blog murdered.”
Allow me.
9 days after surgery I passed a turd, I swear, the size of a beer can, 16 ouncer and unfortunatly it wanted to exit sideways. I almost herniated myself pushing it. My god, I thought it punched a hole right through the bottom of the toilet.
“well that proves everything.”
Nope. Just the weather again.
“It was then you had sympathy for a mother giving birth right?”
Thank God for painkillers, but the worst part of it was the anticipation of the event. I’m sure there’s some scientists out there studying the resulting rise in sea levels caused by me hitting the flush lever.
Lay off the Huffenton Post and try some other sources.
How about FOX news then:
CONATY: We did receive a tip this morning that perhaps all of this came together so quickly because the Governor may have reached out to Rahm Emanuel, the president-elect’s chief of staff, in attempting to leverage filling the Senate seat. And it may have been Rahm Emanuel who tipped the scale and made this move as quickly as it did.
“aHA! Photographic evidence of two politicians from the same state and the same party shaking hands, well that proves everything. May as well lock them both up right now.”
Hey DT Dumb that media rule 101. Haven’t you been paying attention the last 8 years…COME ON!
“aHA! Photographic evidence of two politicians from the same state and the same party shaking hands, well that proves everything. May as well lock them both up right now.”
That’s dumb.
If you’re going to make coparisons like that, then all the guys who are the same party as Larry Craig would be doing other dudes in airport bathrooms.
Thank God for painkillers, but the worst part of it was the anticipation of the event.
The painkillers (at least opiate-based ones) actually compound the constipation. That was my favorite part in Trainspotting, where the protagonist was into the second day of withdrawal and was suddenly forced to use the Worst Toilet in Scotland. You would have been better off with no painkillers, just huffing the N2O gas off a can of Ready Whip as you tried to pass the very large stool.
Your frustration and inability to reason is showing. Just reach on down there and give those panties a tug..
As if I needed any more evidence that I’m arguing with a highschooler; accuse your opponent of what you’re guilty of, then call him a fem, and then wait for the greasy hanger-ons to go “Duh-huh - Good one Moose.”
Vote Republican: Because we still believe wedgies solve disagreements.
Obama Advised Blagojevich On His Victorious Gubernatorial Run.
Obama: “If the governor asks me to work on his behalf, I’ll be happy to do it.
Obama Endorsed Blagojevich For A Second Term.
Obama: “We’ve got a governor in Rod Blagojevich who has delivered consistently on behalf of the people of Illinois.”
Now in “Bush World” that gets repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over .
Lets watch and see?
Allow me.
7 days after surgery I passed a turd, I swear, no less than 20 inches long and two and half inches wide, coiled perfectly in bottom of the bowl.
Before I could complete the phrase “holy…, I realized this was only the opening act.
I sat back down, and swear I could
hear a drum roll in the back of my head, signalling the arrival of the main event. One firm “ummph” released a glistening black orb the size of cantaloupe, obliterating the perfectly
coil in the bottom of the bowl. Like a newly formed volcanic island in the south Pacific, the entire mass rose out of the surface of the water approximately six inches.
“That’s dumb.”
Hey Greg I don’t decide what’s on CNN and the Nightly News but that’s the way it works as I remember it. Boy how we forget the Jack Abramoff Bush photo. I remember at least a week on that and many a stupid comment from some bloggers.
So LETS NOT CHANGE THE RULES boys.
“My theory is that Craig followed D2 into the bathroom, but didn’t see which stall he went into. Craig then mistakenly picked the stall with the cop. After hearing “Police!” D2 jumped on the toilet seat, so no one spotted him.”
***************************
Hey there, how you doin’ tonight?
The restroom’s the best room
I sit right here, next to you
Waiting
I can tell that you are lonely
I can be your one and only
Here is the plan, as we sit on the can
You can tell me
Oh, my darling
Tap three times on my loafer if you want me
Twice on the pipes means the answer is “no”
Oh, my sweet thing
[tap…tap…tap] says we’re gonna share a stall today
Twice on the pipes means “no go, Idaho”
Just one tap; what’s that s’posed to mean?
I’m starting to wonder, I wave at you under
The wall
Don’t you know that you’ve impressed me?
Wait a minute - don’t arrest me
We can’t be lovers ’cause you’re undercover
I’m busted
I didn’t mean it
Tap three times on my wingtip if you want me
Twice on the pipes means the answer is “no”
I got a wide stance
[tap…tap…tap] but I’m telling you that I’m not gay
You flashed your badge
Maybe it’s time to eat crow…
“Like a newly formed volcanic island in the south Pacific, the entire mass rose out of the surface of the water approximately six inches.”
Poetry ..
See, there’s always room for poop on a blog.
“The painkillers (at least opiate-based ones) actually compound the constipation. That was my favorite part in Trainspotting, where the protagonist was into the second day of withdrawal and was suddenly forced to use the Worst Toilet in Scotland”
You’re talking to a retired junkie. The worst is methadone.
“Poetry”
I did well on the English portion of the SAT’s.
“See, there’s always room for poop on a blog.”
Well, the topic does involve rectal greenhouse gasses. Mine had it’s own methane atmosphere.
“The worst is methadone.”
Is it worse than morphine? Cuz that stuff just plugs you up bad .. the birth of all the bad things you’ve done plus interest.
Geezus guys. PBR and Jack, problem solved. You’ll be sh:ttin in no time.
“PBR and Jack”
If you mix it with prune juice then it works faster.
A prune float.
Somewhere in central MN there’s a proof of concept hog farm that has an enclosed fermenter tank for the poop (instead of an open lagoon) and they actually harvest the methane coming off the poop and use it to run turbines and generate juice. The farm generates enough to meet its own own energy needs and sells it a little back to the grid.
We should be offering wonga tax incentives for big farms to implement this technology. Instead you get groups like PETA pushing ridiculous cow fart taxes (using global warming as a rationale) in a vain effort to modify our behavior to be more to their liking by making it prohibitively expensive to eat meat. Such is politics.
If we really want to tackle the anthropogenic causes of Global Warming,
making fat Americans stop eating beef and stop driving Hummers won’t be enough.
We have to incent the rest of the world to stop burning down its forests to clear for farm land or to make into charcoal for cooking fuel. Give them an economic reason to stop burning dirty coal for power and help them embrace an alternative to gasoline engines before everyone has a car in China too.
But how do we make them do that? It’s not like we have the money to just do it for them. How do you set everyone in Central Africa up with an electric stove and a green source of electricity for every town? How do you make it so that an Indonesian sees his remaining rainforest as intrinsically more valubale than the palm oil plantation he’s turned half of it into?
“President-elect Obama today said “I had no contact with the governor or his office and so we were not, I was not aware of what was happening.”
“Axelrod said, “I know he’s talked to the governor and there are a whole range of names many of which have surfaced, and I think he has a fondness for a lot of them.”
(UPDATE: An Obama Transition Team aide says that Axelrod misspoke on Fox News Chicago.)
Oh Okay
DA,
I know a lady from a board Im on that goes to Kenya and distributes solar ovens. I guess they can bake bread and everything all off of sun light.
The biggest environmental problem we have today is third world overpopulation, but leftist groups like the Sierra Club won’t even bring it up. Illegal immigration is also doing environmental damage to the United States, but they won’t discuss that either.
Tiny,
You said six months didnt you?
“Is it worse than morphine?”
So bad, that you need to keep a latex glove handy, in case you need to manually remove it.
I know a lady from a board Im on that goes to Kenya and distributes solar ovens.
I’m not sure if they’re still there, but their offices used to be just up East Hennipen (near 280) from us. Great idea.
“Illegal immigration is also doing environmental damage to the United States, but they won’t discuss that either.”
Did you know more immigrants are leaving now than coming into the country because of the economy?
“I guess they can bake bread and everything all off of sun light.”
You mean like sun-dried tomatoes?
Yes .. it works.
Now .. on another note. I made an inquiry into putting up a wind generator. We get our power from a cooperative. Get this ..
The cost for the materials came out to approximately 35-40k. Now, when I wanted to hook up to the current grid the cost bounced up to almost 250k. And the price/kw was about 1 cent to me.
That’s just nutz and very prohibitive.
“You said six months didnt you?”
I don’t recall…..
I’m just sick of the whole damn thing. Lets treat this as we would a republican scandal so that more people will realize both these parties are full of Crooks and Fools.
“You mean like sun-dried tomatoes?”
No. Ive been told you can cook anything in them that you can cook in a conventional oven. Roasts, stews, bread, cakes etc etc.
” Now, when I wanted to hook up to the current grid the cost bounced up to almost 250k”
How far off the grid are you? Sell your land to T Boon. Or lease it to him anyway.
“The biggest environmental problem we have today is third world overpopulation, but leftist groups like the Sierra Club won’t even bring it up. Illegal immigration is also doing environmental damage to the United States, but they won’t discuss that either.”
Okay .. so what do you propose for the 3rd world overpopulation problem? Sterilization? Abortion? Abstinance (sp?)?
And what kind of environmental damage does illegal immigration cause?
“How far off the grid are you? Sell your land to T Boon. Or lease it to him anyway. ”
We’re already on the grid for a cooperative (Rural Electric). They’re real big into showing you some ways to save your energy costs for heat etc., but they’re not real ‘willing’ to make yourself independent of their services even though it could benefit them.
See, they have to charge a certain amount for the power they get out of south dakota. Remember it has to travel across lines which are leased by all the folks getting the power as-well-as the power itself.
Imagine if they had a few folks who didn’t need that power anymore but instead were creating a surplus. Good thing?
And I want to see some REAL day after day complaining about the money that’s going to be spent on this inauguration. You know and I know and God knows and everybody frickin’ knows if this was a Republican inauguration we’d be hearing that BS day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day.
Frickin’ press bias BS makes my chest hurt.
“Imagine if they had a few folks who didn’t need that power anymore but instead were creating a surplus.”
Remember when Enron tried to sell unused broadband as a commodity?
“Frickin’ press bias BS makes my chest hurt.”
And to think Tiny was having heart atacks all this time.
“Lets treat this as we would a republican scandal so that more people will realize both these parties are full of Crooks and Fools.”
It was on CNN.com and Time.com all day today. What kind of coverage are you looking for?
So does Shiancoe have a case against FOX for showing his dink on national TV?
Tiny writes:
“I’m just sick of the whole damn thing. Lets treat this as we would a republican scandal so that more people will realize both these parties are full of Crooks and Fools.”
Just what the hell are you talking about? What country has Obama invaded? How much torture has he approved? How many incompetant and dangerous zealots has Obama appointed as a U.S. Attorney? How many trillions has Obama lost through waste, oncompetence and fraud? Where is an example of Obama being either a crook or a fool?
You are a walking, talking looney toon on the subject. You don’t care about facts; once again, just make stuff up to suit your bias.
The press is going to follow the Illinois corruption story because that is what the press does. I take it that your onset of early alzheimer’s prevents you from remembering the Clinton years, 1993 - 2001, where Hillary killed Vince Foster in her love nest.
The one fact that we do know is that from the picture painted by U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, President-Elect Obama was not involved in the pattern of corruption of the Illinois governor.
You can be suspicious; you can say where there is smoke, there is fire; but you don’t get to make stuff up.
If the prosecutor’s give Obama a clean bill of health in their investigation, can we expect an apology from Tiny for his ravings?
Are you man enough Tiny to admit that you were wrong to attack President-Elect Obama without evidence of some wrong doing on his part?
Finally, we are facing the worst economic crisis since the depression. Alot of people are going to be hurt by what is happening and about to happen in the economy. And, you are just still annoyed because you do not like the result of the election. Grow up because we have a much bigger problem now which will effect most families in the country.
If there is proof of corruption, then bring it on and root it out. If you do not have any evidence, then get out of the way and let our next President get to work on saving our future.
“Remember when Enron tried to sell unused broadband as a commodity? ”
No kidding.
It does irk me. There’s more than a few people in the cooperative that would put up a wind generator or two .. if they’d use their heads, they’d figure out that there’s an opportunity to sell the power more cheaply, gain some customers, and more-than-likely have less collections.
I wonder what they’d do if I just put it up and disconnected .. get an old military generator as backup….
And then start selling it to the neighbors.
That’d piss ‘em off.
“So does Shiancoe have a case against FOX for showing his dink on national TV?”
He will when D2 shows up asking for his autograph …
..at his house ..
..24/7 …
..for days and days and days ..
“Okay .. so what do you propose for the 3rd world overpopulation problem? Sterilization? Abortion? Abstinance (sp?)? ”
We can start but not blaming the evil capitalist United States for all of the ecological problems in the world. Then we should at least address the problem of third world overpopulation, but liberals refuse to do that and prefer to simply blame us.
“And what kind of environmental damage does illegal immigration cause?”
Haven’t you seen pictures of the damage to ranches and wildlife refuge’s done by the massive invasion of illegal aliens? They litter the place with everything from water bottles to dirty clothes and diapers, and also destroy private propery like the ranchers fences.
“We can start but not blaming the evil capitalist United States for all of the ecological problems in the world. Then we should at least address the problem of third world overpopulation, but liberals refuse to do that and prefer to simply blame us.”
That’s just a bunch of conjecture. No where in there do you propose a solution. Babbling doesn’t solve the issues.
“Haven’t you seen pictures of the damage to ranches and wildlife refuge’s done by the massive invasion of illegal aliens? They litter the place with everything from water bottles to dirty clothes and diapers, and also destroy private propery like the ranchers fences.”
So you’ve seen pictures of trash and stuff left behind by illegal immigrants making their way into the US. Do you have any estimates on the cost of clean-up or repair? Do you have any idea of the tonnage of all this left-behind waste as-well-as the cost to clean it up?
Again, you’re generalizing.
You wouldn’t believe how much trash I pick up out of the ditch in the 300 and some yards our property runs along the road in the spring. I suppose that’s all from illegal immigrants who come here ….
“At a news conference on Tuesday, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, said that Mr. Blagojevich had gone on a “political corruption crime spree,” and that his actions had “taken us to a truly new low.”
“The conduct would make Lincoln roll over in his grave,” Mr. Fitzgerald said.
He added that the complaint “makes no allegations about the president-elect whatsoever.” In one passage of the complaint, Mr. Blagojevich is quoted cursing Mr. Obama in apparent frustration that “they’re not willing to give me anything except appreciation.”
The above is from the NEW YORK TIMES and sets out what U.S. Attorney, Patrick Fitzgerald, said at his news conference today.
Those are the facts as we currently know them.
Did you know more immigrants are leaving now than coming into the country because of the economy?
Yeah, but they refuse to tune up their cars on the way out. That must be what D2 is talking about.
Then we should at least address the problem of third world overpopulation, but liberals refuse to do that and prefer to simply blame us.
I’m sure it’s the liberals who refuse to allow any reasonable family planning strategies that involve contraceptives to be introduced to these developing countries.
“Sure, but where’s the “local grocery store” owner going to spend this funny money? Will he be able to restock his shelves by convincing his wholesaler downtown accept it? Fat chance. The owner will be lucky to convince the local street musicians to take it.”
In my experience, local grocery store owners usually buy some local produce and meat, hire local workers, and pay local newspapers for advertising - all of which would probably be happy to be paid at least in part with “funny money” because they also spend money locally.
“Then we should at least address the problem of third world overpopulation, but liberals refuse to do that and prefer to simply blame us.”
And conservatives refused to fund comprehensive sex ed programs in third world countries with our foreign aid.
“In my experience, local grocery store owners usually buy some local produce and meat, hire local workers, and pay local newspapers for advertising - all of which would probably be happy to be paid at least in part with “funny money” because they also spend money locally.”
Lots of local produce and meat being raised in urban Milwaukee huh? Argentina tried this in 2001 -02 and it wasnt 3 months before that script was totally useless and without value. People want dollars not milwaukee script.
I can see it now. Bob from Bob’s corner store walks into the Milwaukee Journal’s Ad office and drops down some neighborhood script and asks to buy some add space.
They wont take it so he decides to take it to his local Associated Bank. They wont deposit it.
He goes down to the local farmer, because we all know there are farmers in urban milwaukee, and tries to buy some produce. The farmer says he needs to pay the bank and the lease on his tractor but the bank doesnt take script.
So he tries to pay his doctors bill with it but the Doc says he wont take it because the medical leasing company doesnt take script either.
And on and on and on and on……
So does Shiancoe have a case against FOX for showing his dink on national TV?
Huh? When did this happen?
And what kind of environmental damage does illegal immigration cause?
A lot of water evaporates after they get out of the river?
I can see it now. Bob from Bob’s corner store walks into the Milwaukee Journal’s Ad office and drops down some neighborhood script and asks to buy some add space.
Don’t most corner store grocers advertise in their neighborhood papers? I don’t see a lot of ads for my corner store grocery in the Strib. Actually, I don’t see any.
Perhaps you should keep in mind that the “funny money” would supplement federal currency, not supplant it.
“Huh? When did this happen?”
Post game in the locker room. Shiancoe was sans towel and his dink was hangin out. I guess hes the youtube celeb de jour.
“Perhaps you should keep in mind that the “funny money” would supplement federal currency, not supplant it.”
Great. So can you go to the bank and change it for real money? Really, whats the difference between Supplement and supplant in this scenario? Its ment to limit where you can spend it right so you HAVE to use in the neighborhood. No one wants script that has that kind of limitation on it.
Ive seen this type of thing before and IT DOESNT WORK. People have real bills and you cant pay your bills with script.
“Don’t most corner store grocers advertise in their neighborhood papers?”
The neighborhood “News Letter”? Maybe. Trying paying your printer in script. See what they tell you.
Let’s fix this bold action
Bueno.
Are you trying to tell me Sprint won’t take some neighborhood “Monopoly money?”
Buncha jerks, them Sprint folks…
STOP
You misunderstand. Businesses that don’t want to accept the monopoly money can simply insist on federal currency. The local rag can either pay with traditional currency or find a local printer that accepts script. Same deal with the paper’s copy editors, distributor(s), etc.
Its ment to limit where you can spend it right so you HAVE to use in the neighborhood. No one wants script that has that kind of limitation on it.
I disagree. If it encourages people to shop at their local stores instead of the neighborhood Walmart, those store owners will accept as much script as they can trade in. Same with the local printer and other small local businesses. As long as the people paid in script would be using federal currency to make those local purchases anyway, why should they care about its limitations? If they no longer want it, they can exchange it at a local currency exchange for traditional money. Local businesses that find themselves in need of Uncle Sam’s money can do the same.
Are you trying to tell me Sprint won’t take some neighborhood “Monopoly money?”
They won’t be allowed to. Only local businesses will be
allowed to trade in it.
That play money might work neighbor-to-neighbor for bartering…
but not for businesses. I would guess that if times really got that terribly tough, a neighborhood or even a block could agree on who is good at what skill… and use the play money as local currency only for those jobs listed.
I would pay D2 to shovel my driveway, and he could also charge another neighbor to keep the immigrants off their lawn?
“I would pay D2 to shovel my driveway, and he could also charge another neighbor to keep the immigrants off their lawn? ”
You’d have to put Ronald Regan on all the denominations of the currency for D2 to participate … or ..
..a picture of ..
nope .. I’m not going to say it .. not gonna .. nope.
Ive seen this type of thing before and IT DOESNT WORK. People have real bills and you cant pay your bills with script.
This can also be known as barter. I’ve been in a barter club, and I once worked with a large neighborhood group that wanted to issue “script” money as a way to create a barteresque setup to keep the “money” local. I almost thought to open the day with a recount of my experiences with this, but figured I’m a big enough dork already without admitting to having been there, done that to this harebrained idea.
And you know how much it pains me to agree with you.
“Monopoly money?”
Our “Federal Reserve Notes” are close enough to Monopoly money as it is.
“I’m a big enough dork already without admitting to having been there, done that to this harebrained idea.”
Why doesn’t it work?
I think the barter method could work to a point–if things got really bad.
Let’s be real, we are all dependent on each other. No matter how bad the economy tumbles, we’re not gonna suddenly become some overnight Grizzly Adams, living off the land, eating bear meat, and fending for ourselves. We’ll ask for help from neighbors for things we can’t do, and the neighbors will ask us for things they can’t do…
I’m a crummy cook, but I can do some repairs. You fix me dinner I fix your washing machine.
Now the fart-fee or pay-per-poot… or whatever that’s all about… That idea really is full of hot air. I don’t think it’ll ever be passed.
Otherwise, there would be a surcharge at Taco Bell and White Castle…
Now the fart-fee or pay-per-poot… or whatever that’s all about… That idea really is full of hot air. I don’t think it’ll ever be passed.
Oh, how clever.
“Oh, how clever.”
Really, leave that stuff to the professional.
I think the barter method could work to a point–if things got really bad.
Isn’t money at its most basic a means of facilitating bartering? Wasn’t that its beginning? Seems to me this is simply bartering on a local level.
Then again, I’m operating on very little sleep so there could be a lot I’m missing.
Encourages, limits: Toma-to, tomah-to
Say anything you want God. Ive seen this system in action. And I saw it in a 3rd world country where bartaring is still common. They tried local scrip for a while and people refused to accept it after a few short weeks. It was a complete disaster.
Then again, I’m operating on very little sleep so there could be a lot I’m missing.
This must be the case every night.
Why doesnt it work? Maybe because we live in an open free flowing economy. On an island maybe it might work.
“They tried local scrip for a while and people refused to accept it after a few short weeks.It was a complete disaster.”
Historically, fiat currencies have not fared well in the long run.
Ah. yes. local scrip.
The Other topic in this two topic column. Goofy-ass idea. won’t work.
Unless… unless…
You know people to this day have a little moment of doubt when they realize currency isn’t backed by anything material. Accepting a US dollar as something of value in exchange for work is every bit as great a leap of faith as accepting the infallibility of the Pope. There’s a reason it says “in God we trust” on the back of a bill.
But maybe in this internet age one might issue private currency that was actually backed by something. Like the bill could have an encrypted key stored on it somewhere that authenticated to a database that said yes the bearer of this note is actually entitled to a stack of gold yea big in a vault somewhere. And people could trade these private notes for things they deemed to be of equivalent value. Or there could be an electronic framework for assigning/ranking relative values of things and people bidding ebay style to barter goods and services based on those published lists.
I’m not convinced that end-runs around conventional currency won’t happen at some point. Probably already going on. They’ll happen for sure if we lose faith in the govt-issue monopoly money that we’re passing around now.
“Axelrod misspoke a month ago when he stated Obama and the govenor were in consultations over his replcement.”
He misspoke. He misspoke? He misspoke!
He lied. He lied? He lied!
Tiny,
Same old game, new rules.
Republicans lied, democrates misspoke.
“Then again, I’m operating on very little sleep so there could be a lot I’m missing.”
Burning the gerble at both ends, are ya.
Well, Dubble, currency is just a manifestation of our advancement of society over the animal kingdom.
Of course it’s on faith. So is our whole society. What’s stopping everyone from simultaneously just rioting and looting in the streets 24-7? We’re all living on faith in each other to some degree.
(I figure I can’t be a humorist, so I am taking a crack at philosophy. How’m I doin?)
“Vote Republican: Because we still believe wedgies solve disagreements”
Downtown Danno you must calm down. Breathe, breathe. There ya go. Dont ya feel better already.
Wedgies only serve one purpose and that is to quiet the left long enough for them to pull the wedgie out with their big puckered up sh:t lips.
My own conspiracy theory on this Gov blabmouthsky thing is that Obama just took out a loose cannon that had been a pain to deal with for a long time. Finally dropped the dime.
He certainly couldn’ta done it when he was a mere representative in the IL State legislature. Maybe not even when he was Senator. Can’t poop in your own nest, after all. But now that he’s elected President…
Or maybe Justice has been building their case for years and they moved now because they feared Obama would make them drop it once inaugurated.
I guess what I really think is this governor has gone stark raving nuckin futs and melted down before our eyes.
“I guess what I really think is this governor has gone stark raving nuckin futs and melted down before our eyes.”
Its the tough political climate of ……no, no wait. Its the weather.
“Some folks are surveying the wreckage and thinking outside the box.”
Is this the male box?
Katherine I think your comin on to me with all this fart and poop talk.
Nasty, nasty girl, you. I salute you with a swivel necked “Z” snap.
But maybe in this internet age one might issue private currency that was actually backed by something.
From Katherine’s link:
“Incentives could be used to entice consumers into using the new money. For example, perhaps they could trade $100 U.S. for $110 local, essentially netting them a 10 percent discount at participating stores.”
You don’t think being backed by dollars would be sufficient? Also from her link:
“It’s not a new concept—experts estimate there are at least 2,000 local currencies all over the world—but it is a practice that tends to burgeon during economic downturns. During the Great Depression, scores of communities relied on their own currencies.”
Are those all insular communities? Hard to believe none of the “scores of communities” during the last depression successfully used their own currency.
“But maybe in this internet age one might issue private currency that was actually backed by something.”
Kinda like a target card that gives you 10% off all purchases? Or a cosco card that give ya $0.10 off a gallon of gas? Maybe even a cub foods card that gives an extra 10% to the worth of the card If you by one with your 600 dollar tax payer govenment surplus rebate check?
Burning the gerble at both ends, are ya.
A lisping burning bush could be very funny.
Moses, the Gay Musical: “Tribes, we’re walking this way now. And one, and two . . .”
When you call in gay tomorrow, will anyone be surprised?
“Are those all insular communities? Hard to believe none of the “scores of communities” during the last depression successfully used their own currency.”
It would work better in a small remote farm community in the 1930’s yes, thats true. It would work better because of the nature of a small town community economy. An economy at that time that was significantly more closed to the outside world. It would work Better but not without significant problems.
But this idea was proposed in modern urban milwaukee. Instead of printing script why not just give people in your community coupons they can use at local stores only? That way you dont need to try and come up with philanthropic bakers to cover the 10% increase in script face value when people eventually try and cash this stuff in at their script exchange office.
“Are you man enough Tiny to admit that you were wrong to attack President-Elect Obama without evidence of some wrong doing on his part?”
“without evidence of some wrong doing on his part”
Turefool….Come again?
Your right the last eight years people have only attacked when they’ve had evidence of some wrong doing.
Your right the last eight years people have only attacked when they’ve had evidence of some wrong doing.
Well, Bush did make this easy by being so blatent and taking an attitude of, “What are you going to do about it?”
“Michelle Obama to Receive $30,000 Harmony Ring from Barack”
Feed the babies
Who dont have enough to eat
Shoe the children
With no shoes on their feet
House the people
Livin in the street
Oh, oh, theres a solution
“Robert Grant, FBI special agent in charge of the Chicago office, characterized Illinois’ place in the pantheon of political corruption.
‘If it isn’t the most corrupt state in the United States, it’s certainly one hell of a competitor,’ Grant said. ‘Even the most cynical agents in our office were shocked.’”
Yeah Tiny. I think Bush II is basically the worst president we’ve had in 100 years. He’s about as good at his job as Kevin McHale is. It basically comes down to lack of curiosity and laziness.
But you’re right when you say the True Blue’s of the world will blame Bush II for anything they can. When the smallest ammount of smoke is present they yell fire. Sure there are some big things to blame on him with plenty of evidence. Just look at Moore’s Farenheit 911 for example.
But when the FBI calls Illinois the most politically corrupt state in the Union, you’ve got True saying : ” if the prosecutor has a case, he should make it and help to remove a corrupt politician from an important and powerfull post.”
If? IF?
This guy is on tape explaining what his intentions are and all True can say is if.
When the shoe is on the other foot we’ve got GHS and True and the other card carriers making all kinds of connections. But now its if for true and silence for GHS.
This GOV of IL should get life in prison and have his balls nailed to the wall.
“Michelle Obama to Receive $30,000 Harmony Ring from Barack”
Jeeze, can’t you find anything that hasn’t been debunked weeks ago?
“Haj nears end as pilgrims stone devil, visit Mecca”
I saw this on TV. Looked pretty crazy to me. Ridicule from the left and the press crazy.
Didn’t see any thou.
Tiny,
Dont quote The Steve Miller Band. Its not cool.
But for the Gov of Il, a nice quote might be:
Oooo, Oooo, take the money and run OOOOo Yeahh!!!
“Michelle Obama to Receive $30,000 Harmony Ring from Barack”
But dan lets………
Feed the babies
Who dont have enough to eat
Shoe the children
With no shoes on their feet
House the people
Livin in the street
Oh, oh, theres a solution
Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more?
I’d love to change the world
But I don’t know what to do
So I’ll leave it up to you
Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, Monopoly
I’d love to change the world
But I don’t know what to do
So I’ll leave it up to you
I guess I must of been way out there when I was a liberal. Those are the things I believed in and 30,000 dollars feeds allot of children my friend.
WHen talking of artic ice, one need only look tot he stories about the Northwest passage. When the ice cap was shrinking, (it’s not anymore by the way), there were concerns that the Northern Passage would by open again.
But one has to wonder, how did the Northwest Passage get its name in the first place? It seems in 1903–1906, these shipping lanes were open. But how can that be? The SUV didn’t arrive until the 1980’s?
So it’s manmade catastrophy that the Northwest Passage almost opened up again, even though it’s been open many times in the past.
It’s pure BS, folks. The Discovery Channel had a show on a few years ago where this crew went on an expedition to retrace the steps of the explorers of the Northwest Passage. They were stuck in the ice several times, and had to use power instead of sails to get out of the mess. Their stupid conclusion? Global warming was making the trip possible. Yet they were retracing the steps of people who had had the crossing before, with only sail power. Interesting, isn’t it?
Sounds like you’ve found the rosetta stone of GW BD.
When the ice cap was shrinking, (it’s not anymore by the…
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……
So Tiny .. how are you feeling? Did they make you quit smoking or did you do it on your own.
If you quit .. does it make you ornery?
You know what BD reminds me of, with all the “Global Warming is bunk and here’s the web site that proves” it stuff?
911 Truthers.
911 Truthers.
I was thinking more along the lines of Flat Earthers.
Me & 650+ other scientists.
ttp://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6
BD>
Could you by chance tell us who it was that sailed the NW Passage in the early 20th century?
I only ask because the only time it’s been done in one season without the aid of an engine was in 2007.
Could you by chance tell us who it was that sailed the NW Passage in the early 20th century?
Amundsen
Amundsen did it twice, the first sitting the winter out, and using a smaller vessel with a gas engine, and had to use water that were only 3 feet deep.
In 1918, he sailed across the entire way.
Unprecedented ice cap meling. I think not. Perhaps his first trip emitted so much co2, that the next trip could be made by sail. Ha!
From Wikipedia on Northwest Passage:
Starting in 1999, the Arctic Ocean has experienced earthquakes attended by undersea volcanism[1], warming Arctic waters significantly [2] enough to melt arctic ice-pack, an effect which has been attributed erroneously to atmospheric “global warming” which has not raised arctic air temperatures above the freezing point.
Wikipedia? Hold on a minute while I do some editing.
an effect which has been attributed erroneously to atmospheric “global warming” which has not raised arctic air temperatures above the freezing point.
Global warming has a clearly observed, long term effect on Arctic sea ice. In fact, although climate models predict that Arctic sea ice will decline in response to greenhouse gas increases, the current pace of retreat at the end of the melt season is exceeding the models’ forecasts by around a factor of 3 (Stroeve 2007).
There’s an easy to understand graph here for the scientifically illiterate. www.skepticalscience.com/Arctic-sea-ice-melt-natural-or-man-made.html
Unprecedented ice cap meling. I think not.
I think so.
h ttp://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seasonal.extent.1900-2007.jpg
Dan, we can all go to the BS website skepitical science and read all of this BS for ourselves. Do you work for the site, or what?
How do you explain the Northwest passage? You can’t.
How does ice melt with temp well below freezing? It can’t.
It’s more BS from the AGW religion.
Here’s a test to check your actual level of knowledge on AGW.
Should George W. Bush sign the Kyoto treaty?
What has been overlooked about solar activity, in all of the AGW climate models, (if they consider solar activity at all), is that during this activity, the polarity of the energy that raeches us is modified.
You know how magnets work right? SO when the sun is active, the polarity changes allow for more radiation to get through the magnetic field of protection provided by earth.
If you doubt this go to a web site like SolarCycle24.com and watch what happens whent he events occur. The polarity is shown on a meter.
During very high solar maximums, the sun barfing out massive amounts of plasma much farther than many times the size of our planet. That means more energy reaching us, and with polarity twists, even more of this energy reaches us.
We’ve been in a very high solar period since 1970. Sure there have been minimums and maximums, but overall its been considerably higher.
Until 2008. Now we are in a prolonged solar minum, and look at how the temps have dropped. Coldest winters all over the planet for quite some time, and more to come. Cycle 24 just can’t seem to get going. A solar minimum right now is showing us how f’ed up these climate models are. Not one predicts the current cooling cycle.
Want to see what’s really going on at the Wilkins Ice Shelf:
ttp://icecap.us/images/uploads/Wilkins_Ice_Shelf_con.pdf
Seems to be a normall occuring event in nature. Weird huh?
Dan, we can all go to the BS website skepitical science and read all of this BS for ourselves.
And you haven’t. Real science obviously scares you. There must be some kind of denialist club you belong to, which is fine, because it only helps isolate republicans from the rest of the educated masses.
How do you explain the Northwest passage? You can’t.
Regional, not global.
How does ice melt with temp well below freezing? It can’t.
And yet the north pole is now free of summer ice for the first time in eons, and the arctic has been losing overall ice mass at an accelerating rate. As has Antarctica. As has Greenland. How do you explain that?
Want to see what’s really going on at the Wilkins Ice Shelf:
Want to see what’s really going on in Antarctica?
I recently received an email asking how could I state Antarctica was melting when it’s currently showing record sea ice cover. Actually, the email didn’t frame the question quite that politely (I was accused of being a liar and an alarmist). Nevertheless, it brings up an interesting point. How could Antarctica be overall losing mass if in 2007, it showed the highest amount of sea ice extent since satellite measurements began? Firstly, we must distinguish between land ice and sea ice. This post looks at the state of Antarctic land ice - the next post will look at sea ice.
www.skepticalscience.com/Is-Antarctic-ice-melting-or-growing.html
And yet the north pole is now free of summer ice for the first time in eons
And yet it isn’t. Hasn’t happened. there were stories that it might, but it never happened. You sir, are full of BS.
Regional, not global.
The passage goes all across the arctic, where you claim unprecented melting is occuring. You sir, are full of BS.
“There’s an easy to understand graph here for the scientifically illiterate. www.skepticalscience.com/Arctic-sea-ice-melt-natural-or-man-made.html”
Of course it’s easy to understand, with it’s whopping 25 years of study or our 4.5 billion year old planet. (Hint- 100 years might not be enough either).
Do you have anything for the scientifically literate, or just links to sites geared towards people trying to debunk political talking points?
The Scripp Institute had to go back 55 million years to produce a meaningful comparison to the effect today’s global warming on our oceans.
As has Antarctica. As has Greenland. How do you explain that?
Speaking of Greenland, look up the BS Global Warming Island. It suppsoedly appeared from under the ice for the first time ever, and yet it was mapped in the 1950’s. More AGW BS.
As has Antarctica. As has Greenland. How do you explain that?
Speaking of Greenland, look up the BS Global Warming Island. It suppsoedly appeared from under the ice for the first time ever, and yet it was mapped in the 1950’s. More AGW BS.
See about Greenland…
ttp://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2008/03/31/warming-island-another-global-warming-myth-exposed/
Lets throw some cream corn or mud in this ring so DD and BD can do this right.
There’s a friendlier version at ClimateDebateDaily. Each day they post a pro and a con. Even though the debate is over…
Gore, what a dork.
“And yet the north pole is now free of summer ice for the first time in eons, and the arctic has been losing overall ice mass at an accelerating rate. As has Antarctica. As has Greenland. How do you explain that?”
Santa has gas (methane).
Santa has gas (methane).
Hence the need for a tax.
“BornDemocrate says:
How do you explain the Northwest passage? You can’t.”
“Downtown Dan says:
Regional, not global.”
Downtown Danno,
I can understand your frustration with those who question the premise of Globull Warming.
What I mean to say is that it has got to be a 24 hour job denying opposing Facts as regional while accepting heresay and conjecture as facts that are undisputable for proof of Globull warming because you say so, to fit your narrow interpretation of how the planet interacts with its human hosts.
solar power cars/true facts/not shopping/facts not shopping
Weve tried just about everything to get out of this economic mess.First there was the flood of tax r […]
atmos energy bill pay online
Weve tried just about everything to get out of this economic mess.First there was the flood of tax r […]
true facts about solar power cars/not shopping
Weve tried just about everything to get out of this economic mess.First there was the flood of tax r […]
atmos energy bill payments
Weve tried just about everything to get out of this economic mess.First there was the flood of tax r […]
atmos energy bill pay
Weve tried just about everything to get out of this economic mess.First there was the flood of tax r […]
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Katherine Kersten writes a weekly column for the Star Tribune's Sunday Opinion Exchange section. The column covers a broad range of topics reflecting her experiences and interests.
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