Are Taxpayers Footing the Bill for an Islamic Public School in Minnesota?
March 9th, 2008 – 11:51 AMThe school is in huge demand, with a waiting list of 1,500. Last fall, it opened a second campus in Blaine.
TIZA uses the language of culture rather than religion to describe its program in public documents. According to its mission statement, the school “recognizes and appreciates the traditions, histories, civilizations and accomplishments of the eastern world (Africa, Asia and Middle East).”
But the line between religion and culture is often blurry. There are strong indications that religion plays a central role at TIZA, which is a public school financed by Minnesota taxpayers. Under the U.S. and state constitutions, a public school can accommodate students’ religious beliefs but cannot encourage or endorse religion.
TIZA raises troubling issues about taxpayer funding of schools that cross that line.
Asad Zaman, TIZA’s principal, declined to allow me to visit the school or grant me an interview. He did not respond to e-mails seeking written replies.
TIZA’s strong religious connections date from its founding in 2003. Its co-founders, Zaman and Hesham Hussein, were both imams, or Muslim religious leaders, as well as leaders of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota (MAS-MN).
Since then, they have played dual roles: Zaman as TIZA’s principal and the current vice-president of MAS-MN, and Hussein as TIZA’s school board chair and president of MAS-MN until his death in a car accident in Saudi Arabia in January.
TIZA shares MAS-MN’s headquarters building, along with a mosque.
MAS-MN came to Minnesotans’ attention in 2006, when it issued a “fatwa,” warning Muslim taxi drivers at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport that transporting passengers with alcohol in their baggage is a violation of Islamic law.
Journalists whom Zaman has permitted to visit TIZA have described the school’s Islamic atmosphere and practices.
“A visitor might well mistake Tarek ibn Ziyad for an Islamic school,” reported Minnesota Monthly in 2007. “Head scarves are voluntary, but virtually all the girls wear them.” The school has a central carpeted prayer space, and “vaguely religious-sounding language” is used.
According to the Pioneer Press, TIZA’s student body prays daily and the school’s cafeteria serves halal food (permissible under Islamic law). During Ramadan, all students fast from dawn to dusk, according to a parent quoted in the article.
In fact, TIZA was originally envisioned as a private Islamic school. In 2001, MAS-MN negotiated to buy the current TIZA/MAS-MN building for Al-Amal School, a private religious institution in Fridley, according to Bruce Rimstad of the Inver Grove Heights School District. But many immigrant families can’t afford Al-Amal. In 2002, Islamic Relief — headquartered in California — agreed to sponsor a publicly funded charter school, TIZA, at the same location.
TIZA claims to be non-sectarian, as Minnesota law requires charters to be. But “after-school Islamic learning” takes place on weekdays in the same building under MAS-MN’s auspices, according to the program for MAS-MN’s 2007 convention. At that convention, a TIZA representative at the school’s booth told me that students go directly to “Islamic studies” classes at 3:30, when TIZA’s day ends. There, they learn “Qur’anic recitation, the Sunnah of the Prophet” and other religious subjects, he said.
TIZA’s 2006 Contract Performance Review Report states that students engage in unspecified “electives” after school or do homework.
In addition to the issues raised by TIZA’s religious elements, there are reasons to be concerned about the organizations with which it is connected.
Group linked to Hamas
Islamic Relief-USA, the school’s sponsor, is compared to the Red Cross in several TIZA documents. In 2006, however, the Israeli government announced that Islamic Relief Worldwide, the organization’s parent group, “provides support and assistance” to Hamas, designated by the U.S. government as a terrorist group.
Meanwhile, MAS-MN offers on its web site “beneficial and enlightening information” about Islam, which includes statements like “Regularly make the intention to go on jihad with the ambition to die as a martyr.”
At its 2007 convention, MAS-MN featured the notorious Shayk Khalid Yasin, who is well-known in Britain and Australia for teaching that husbands can beat disobedient wives, that gays should be executed and that the United States spreads the AIDS virus in Africa through vaccines for tropical diseases.
Yasin’s topic? “Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota.”
TIZA has improved the reading and math performance of its mostly low-income students. That’s commendable, but should Minnesota taxpayers be funding an Islamic public school?
316 Responses to "Are Taxpayers Footing the Bill for an Islamic Public School in Minnesota?"
Am I the only one that read this article and found it appalling that my tax dollars are being used by a school that is thinly veiling its attempt to be a public institution? As a public school is it not the duty of the administration to answer to public inquiries of its charter, curriculum, and manner in which it delivers the education to the students. I find it very hard to believe that this type of smoke and mirrors is being tolerated. I would be interested to know how many non-muslim students attend this public school. Maybe none are applying; however if none are applying isn’t it the duty of the school to be a diverse place of education to draw in students of different cultures? I know for a fact that all publicly held companies have and or work towards a diversity initiative. I also know that our government goes to great lengths to promote diversity within its ranks of government employees. Also, institutions of learning should be places where students can grow and question the very facts that are being taught. That is in my mind the very essence of learning; teaching free thought and questioning the validity of what is being set forth. To another point during Ramadan i would like to question whether or not the school does or would accomodate a student that does not celebrate Ramadan. It is very interesting that this school, although currently a public institution does not have or appear to have any students that are not practioners of the Islamic faith. I feel that the school’s superintendant and administration have the duty to answer the questions of the taxpayers as other schools in the Minnesota education system do. I find it alarming that this place of public education is appearing to be so secretive about its intentions and allowing or not allowing a reporter through its doors. I feel that if this school is going to reap the benefits of the taxpayer dollars than there is no reason that any taxpayer cannot and should not validate the use of said dollars. Maybe i am just a naive 27 year old that has a lowly master’s degree from a small unknown school in Boston, Ma; but this seems very unusual.
-SJM (mpls)
This article raises several fundamental questions about our educational system and the accountability of those that are in charge of developing and fostering the youth of Minnesota. First, I find it alarming that the school although veiled as a public non-religious school would not allow a member of the Minnesota community to even ask questions about how the taxpayer funded appropriations are being spent. Under the current law there must be a separation of church and state and on paper it appears that this school is in compliance. However, why wouldn’t the administration return inquiries about the apparent ties with religious organizations. (which i will restate have been tied to Hamas). Secondly, there seems to be at least from this article few if any non-muslim students. Now i know that there are plenty of schools across Minnesota in the rural communities that have no muslim students but that most likely is because there are no muslim students living in the schoold district. I would question why the school isn’t seeking out students of diversity from different cultures as all of the other schools seemingly in MN are held to do. I also would question if during Ramadan that this school accomodates any non-muslim students. Does this school accomodate after school extra curricular activites that are not religious based? The education system that MN has built for the youth of this state is based upon free thinking. This same free thinking is what affords each and every student the right and privelege to question the manner in which they are being taught and the facts that are being presented to them. That is the very essence of the learning mantra that is embraced by society in MN. Without free thinking and questioning the facts there is only manipulation and group think. This type of environment can lead to students not being prepared for dealing with diversity of ideas, peoples, religions, and social behavior outside of the confines of a school. This is quite alarming and i find this type of educational vehicle dysfunctional and does not represent what the taxpayers of MN would like to spend the ever so scarce education funds. These are just the quick ramblings of a young 27 year old professional with a lowly master’s degree from a school in Boston, MA. Maybe i am naive and don’t see the world as it is just as it ought to be.
sorry for the double post i thought i lost the first one.
This is classic Kersten - a bunch of vague innuendo, strung together with some out of context quotes, with absolutely no real reportage.
First, the Minnesota Monthly quote from KK’s column:
“A visitor might well mistake Tarek ibn Ziyad for an Islamic school,” reported Minnesota Monthly in 2007. “Head scarves are voluntary, but virtually all the girls wear them.” The school has a central carpeted prayer space, and “vaguely religious-sounding language” is used.
Sounds pretty damning, huh? Well, here are some other quotes from the Minnesota Monthly article:
“Zaman takes pains to point out that his school, which currently serves grades K-7 and plans to add high-school classes, is not a religious institution. That has been confirmed many times, he says—state education officials inspected the academy 11 times during its first year. “They really wanted to make sure,” Zaman says, smiling.”
This is a confirmable statement. KK could very easily have called the MDE and asked about the school and whether it is considered secular by the State, more particularly, the State agency in the Pawlenty administration.
Okay, let’s try another one - here’s the context around the quote that she pulls from the MM article:
“Despite Zaman’s assurances, a visitor might well mistake Tarek ibn Ziyad for an Islamic school. Arabic as a second language is mandatory. Headscarves are voluntary, but virtually all the girls wear them. There is a carpeted prayer space in the middle of the building that is similar, Zaman says, to spaces provided by several Minneapolis public schools. And there is the vaguely religious-sounding language used in the school. At one point, a conversation with Zaman is interrupted by the intercom: “Sister Zamia, please call the office. Sister Zamia, 2-2-1.” “[Muslims] refer to everyone as a ‘brother’ or a ‘sister,’ ” he explains. “We are all children of Adam.”
Zaman spends a lot of time explaining things like this—not only for curious non-Muslims, but also for the new immigrants he works with, many of them Somalis suffering culture shock. The son of a well-known Bangladeshi journalist whose aunt served in that nation’s parliament, Zaman is devoted to helping Minnesota’s growing Muslim population adapt to American life. The academy is only one such effort. He also lectures worshipers at his Bloomington mosque, serves as MAS’s media representative, and was a delegate to the 2004 Democratic National Convention. (Despite the constantly buzzing BlackBerry, Zaman does have a personal life; he has been married for five years.)
“My mission is not to make [Muslims] Americans,” says Zaman, who immigrated to Minnesota as a college student in 1992. “They already are Americans.” Many don’t yet accept that, however, harboring “the myth of return”—the illusion that they are in America only temporarily and therefore have no obligations to it. “My mission is to convince them to take part in the American fabric—to play a role—which many have chosen not to do so far,” Zaman says.
“He is a bridge-builder,” says Keith Ellison, who in November became the first Muslim ever elected to Congress (Zaman assisted his Fifth District campaign). “I don’t know anybody who is more effective.””
Oh, so let’s examine this -
1) Zaman was a 2004 DNC delegate and worked for the Ellison campaign. KK detests Ellison, we all know that.
2) The pulled quote is out of context - it implies that this is a religious school, when the MM reporter is using this to rebut the claim. This is, at a minimum, deceptive, and at worst, blatantly out of context.
3) Mali’s earlier post concerned about Muslim integration might be better answered by this quote than I can.
watch it mal, or the thought police will start calling you a hater. dont you understand yet ?? we need to “accomadate” them so we dont hurt their”feelings: so we can practice “diversity” by setting up a mini aparteid system. seperate but equal. only in that way can we all come together as one and be multicultural. get it yet ??
i know its hard at first to contort ones brain to make sense of that twisted logic, but if you try real hard and listen to the liberal regressives, islamic sympathizers and useful idiots long enough they’ll have you programmed just right.
and just because the aclu and their kind have been conducting their own little jihad about getting god out of public schools for the last 30 years dont expect them to file suit. just you watch, they’ll make some sort of statement how its ok because we need to become more “sensitive”.
funny how those who scream tolerance, diversity and sensitivity the loudest are always for the most intlorant, insensitive, exclusionary groups around.
So, now let’s examine the central claim of this column, that we shouldn’t allow religion to be publicly funded in charter schools.
This is where the hypocrisy gets awfully thick, awfully quick, considering all of the plaudits that KK has bestowed on Ascension Academy, a public-funded charter school in North Minneapolis. Here’s one website’s synopsis of the 2003 controversy regarding the very same issue KK raises in her column.
“Minnesota Allows Religious School To Open Charter
A publicly funded charter high school will open on the grounds of a Roman Catholic church in Minneapolis next year, despite concerns about church-state separation.
Last month, the Minnesota Education Department approved a charter application for Ascension Academy, a “public” school with a secular curriculum, to be located on the grounds of Ascension Catholic Church.
The school will be headed by Dorwatha Woods, the principal of Ascension School, a popular Catholic school nearby. Woods assured state education officials that the high school would not force religion on its students.
“We will lose that faith dimension that easy-to-express faith dimension…but just because we aren’t talking about God doesn’t mean God won’t be there,” Woods told the St. Paul Pioneer Press. “I have a faith life. God will find a way to see these children to where they need to be. With my prayers at home I will find the strength to help these children.”
The Pioneer Press quoted several anonymous education department employees who expressed concern about Woods’ ability to run a secular public high school.
“This school seems more like a private religious school than a public high school,” said one of the unidentified state officials.
Wow - what a parallel! Isn’t this exactly what KK says is IMPOSSIBLE in the case of TIZA? Oh, so it’s really about WHICH religion is associated with the school, not WHETHER religion is associated with the school.
At least be honest about it.
If a religious school is abusing the charter school regs, it should be dealt with.
HOWEVER, the article then goes into the typical KK guilt-by-association rant against just about anything Islamic.
Let’s try this: Katherine Kersten, part of the “Center for the American Experiment”, president one Mitch Pearlstein, whose radical views on vouchers for enabling students to attend parochial schools are well-known, which even sponsored a speech by John Bolton, radical anti-Islamist so despised in his own country that he couldn’t get confirmed as UN ambassador.
In short, can the phony arguments and deal with the issue.
So,aklemz, what about the quotes on wife beating and executing gays? Are you going to “put those in context” too?
Let me get this straight, aklmz: the school officials are so fearful that someone will find out what they’re up to that they bar her from visiting this “public” school and won’t answer her questions. You than chastize her for “no real reporting.”
So everyone will ignore John Bolton, reputed swinger and warmonger, alleged wife abuser, and the links to KK?
These quotes figh44 refers to are part of the following chain of associations:
TIZA is promoted by MAS-MN, which sponsored a conference in 2007, which included a speaker, who in other remarks in another place, said the following unattributed quotes.
Same thing with the “Hamas Connection”
TIZA is sponsored by Islamic Relief USA, which is a branch of Islamic Relief, which has been accused by Israel IN GAZA of “aiding” Hamas, and Hamas is a terrorist organization.
Where to start?
The Bush administration has aggressively gone after Islamic charities since 9/11, right? How did they miss this terrorist connection, while KK’s steel trap investigative journalism got it?
As far as chains of association go, I love your feigned concern over women’s rights and gay rights.
No more, I assume, than John McCain’s efforts to distance himself from John Hagee’s ridiculous statements, such as:
Hagee on Hurricane Katrina
“All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.” [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]
Hagee on African-Americans
The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to “meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a ’slave sale,’ an East Side minister said Wednesday.” The Express-News reported:
“Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a ’slave sale’ to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, ‘The Cluster.’
“The item was introduced with the sentence ‘Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone” and ended with “Make plans to come and go home with a slave.” [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]
Hagee on Catholicism
“Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.” [Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee]
Hagee on Women
“Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist.” [God’s Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner]
“[T]he feminist movement today is throwing off authority in rebellion against God’s pattern for the family.” [”Bible Positions on Political Issues,” John Hagee]
Hagee on LGBT Americans
“The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment.” [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]
How familiar! And Hagee directly ENDORSED McCain.
And as for the Center…
“So it may come as a shock to realize that the public is, in fact, subsidizing the politicking of these Republicans and their ideological allies to the tune of some $300,000 a year.”
“A tax mystery because the Center seems in danger of violating Internal Revenue Service (IRS) regulations of charities regarding the prohibition against campaign intervention and rules against tax-exempt organizations providing a “private benefit” for some specified group (i.e. Republicans.)”
Yep, crack down on ‘em all!
Figh44 - gee, I can’t imagine why they would do that, considering the hack job she did on Normandale and MCTC.
Oops, Muslim American Society apologist aklemz got caught in a fib. He forgot to tell you that the officers of the “public school” are MAS officers. The “executing gays” language is from material promoted on the MAS website. As for his apoligetics for Hamas. Just look at the MAS website and you’ll know the truth. If there was a different version of any of this the school officials could have spoken up, instead of hiding from public scrutiny. I guess they thought Kersten had been too effective on MCTC. At least they’ve got apologists like aklemz to do their work here in closeted anonymity.
“Funny how those who scream tolerance, diversity and sensitivity the loudest are always for the most intlorant, insensitive, exclusionary groups around.”
“We don’t see things as they are; We see things as we are.” - Anais Nin
Okay, buddy, you show me the link to the website - since that isn’t even what KK claims in her article. The quotes on the MAS website about martyrdom are what you are talking about.
As far as that quote is concerned, I can’t find it, but if you google the phrase you run into scads of posts on WorldNetDaily, FrontPageMag, etc. I assume that it exists, but I doubt it is the result of any original research on KK’s part, nor do I think that it is the “slam dunk” that many would make it out to be. The notion of jihad is a very complex one - I googled the exact quote and found this (www.islambasics.com/index.php?act=download&BID=79) which if you read section 2.2.5 regarding Jihad, it sure sounds like the biblical account in Revelations.
God forbid we should have taxpayer dollars supporting anything other than a christian point of view.
Kersten would probably argue in favor of vouchers for private schools, but bristles at the idea of any public money going to those scary muslims.
When will the Star Tribune get rid of this woman? I cancelled my subscription of many years, largely because they got rid of their good columnists and kept this hack.
There are strong indications that religion plays a central role at TIZA, which is a public school financed by Minnesota taxpayers.
KK, does your umbrage only extend to this school or do you also condemn those conservative Christians that want to turn our public K-12 schools into de facto parochial schools?
Contrast these two posts:
Downtown Dan says:
March 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
“Funny how those who scream tolerance, diversity and sensitivity the loudest are always for the most intlorant, insensitive, exclusionary groups around.”
And, from Figh44:
So,aklemz, what about the quotes on wife beating and executing gays?
Hmm.
Figh44: “At least they’ve got apologists like aklemz to do their work here in closeted anonymity.”
Look, the “anonymity” charge only REALLY works if you are using YOUR name, “figh44.”
Way to take a principled stand!
maybe i didnt read closely enough or maybe ak is just using time tested diversionary tactics when bringing up haggee and christianity.
its really very simple. if the school is a public school that receives tax dollar money, they are not to promote any religion. period. they are to remove religious symbols and cease prosyletizing immeadiately. public schools must all be held to the same equal accountability.
if they want a private muslim school, then they must foot the bill. in america, they cant have it both ways.
“If the school is a public school that receives tax dollar money, they are not to promote any religion. period. they are to remove religious symbols and cease proseletizing immediately.” I also object to the support - through tax deductions, transportation, etc. of parochial schools. My brother went to a “Christian” academy that had a text that constantly referred to the “Roman Church” and called Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventists, etc. cults raised up by Satan. At the end of the day it is clear that KK and the CFTAE are all in favor of vouchers and other means to support their favored religions’ schools.
Okay, but there’s nothing in this article that indicates that this school -
- displays religious symbols
- proselytizes students to join or practice any religion
- promotes a religion
All of these are innuendo and are denied by the fact that the Minnesota Department of Education, an executive agency led by a Pawlenty appointee, has not deemed the school to be a religious school.
If the argument is that no school that is led by a religious figure can be free of religion, then other schools such as Ascension Academy should also be shut down.
There’s no proof offered here that this is a religious school.
-
“My brother went to a “Christian” academy that had a text that constantly referred to the “Roman Church” and called Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventists, etc. cults raised up by Satan”
if you see a situation like this you object to call the aclu.htey are most aggressive at removing christianity from public life.
however, if its an islamic school you will be out of luck. they apparently dont mind other religions being supported by tax dollars.
As far as time-tested diversionary techniques - my point is that extreme figures in American Christianity frequently make similar statements about husbands disciplining wives and HIV as vehicle of God’s wrath. These folks aren’t treated as crazy aberrations, either. Their endorsement is sought after by politicians like McCain - Pat Robertson, John Hagee, and there are a lot more…
I’d love to see as much concern about Glbt and women’s rights directed toward fundamentalist Christianity as is directed toward fundamentalist Islam.
I agree,aklemz. By the way, Ascension isn’t just one Academy - go to the charter school website and see just how many those folks are running.
I think they used to call this sort of fear-mongering the “Turban Tide”. It’s the modern equivalent of the “Yellow Peril”.
“My brother went to a “Christian” academy that had a text that constantly referred to the “Roman Church” and called Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventists, etc. cults raised up by Satan”
Let me guess. That school was associated with either LCMS or WELS. Right?
If there is any question about the school being a religious entity then it should be investigated thoroughly.
Ms. Kersten says that she was declined enty to the premises and her emails went unanswered. This should tell us all something. This school is HIDING something and we should all be informed as to what is being hidden. It’s our money supporting the school and we have a RIGHT to know what is going on.
I, for one, am getting very very very tired of my tax dollars being wasted! The taxpayers have the right to know where their money is going and should have the right to say “no” to some things and one of those would be a school that is run specifically for Muslims.
Actually, it was a Baptist-affiliated school. My Catholic mother had heard about how wonderful the school was…you should have seen the look on her face when she read that textbook.
If all of the girls are wearing head scarves you can probably bet your bottom dollar that all of the girls attending the school are Muslim. If I had a daughter attending that school she would NOT be wearing a head scarf.
But then again, I wouldn’t allow my children to attend an Islamic school. I wouldn’t want them learning that killing non-believers and gays and being suicidal is a good thing.
Sorry folks, but the Islam religion is right up there with Satanism in my book.
Actually, it was a Baptist-affiliated school.
I was asking because the one of the core doctrines of both LCMS and WELS is that the papacy is the antichrist.
That’s commendable, but should Minnesota taxpayers be funding an Islamic public school?
The answer, of course, is, “No.” But, KK, would you be as upset if Minnesota taxpayers were funding a Christian public school run by Catholics or Lutherans or Baptists? (To name just three Chrisitan denominations.)
All Muslims are the same
All Christians are the same
All Jews are the same
All Hindus are the same…
Baloney.
Mahoney:
1) So what if the majority of students are Muslim? If I told you of a public school in the Twin Cities where the majority of students are Christian, and therefore it was a religious school, you’d laugh at me.
2) The point of charter schools (and KK has sung their praises in many places) is that they can specialize in particular approaches or subject matter. For example, KK lauds “classical” charter schools in one of her columns. Bottom line: your choice - so what?
3) As far as your claim that “they must be hiding something,” remember that we have a regulatory agency who’s JOB it is to investigate and regulate charter schools. It’s called the Minnesota Department of Education - and it is an executive agency controlled by Governor Pawlenty. Denying an ideology-driven newspaper columnist an interview isn’t hiding something from the authorities. Or don’t you trust Tim Pawlenty?
Or, KK, would you be as upset if the Catholic-run Hill Murray High School received taxpayer dollars? If not, you should be.
“As far as time-tested diversionary techniques - my point is that extreme figures in American Christianity frequently make similar statements about husbands disciplining wives and HIV as vehicle of God’s wrath. These folks aren’t treated as crazy aberrations, either. Their endorsement is sought after by politicians like McCain - Pat Robertson, John Hagee, and there are a lot more”
sorry az, nowhere in america is it accepted practice to force women to cover themsleves upon pain of being whipped. nowher in america is it compulsatory for women to be with male relatives when out in public at all times. in america a woman can go to a starbucks with a male work associate without fear of being drug out and imprisoned by the morality police. nowhere in america is it acceptable to stone a woman for adultary. nor in america is polygamy an accepted practice. in america a man cant discard his wife and other obligations by simply repeatin talaq 3 times.
neither haggee or robertson endorse these neandrathalic practices. the most extreme christian viewepoints are held by a very small minoity and are swiftly repuduiated by the mainstream. they are not institutionlized views and practices of americans.
Mahoney says:
March 9th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Sorry folks, but the Islam religion is right up there with Satanism in my book.
Well, then it’s pretty useless to argue with you, isn’t it? You’ll believe anything that KK insinuates, since it fits your pre-conceived notions of this religion.
“Or don’t you trust Tim Pawlenty?”
I don’t trust any government entity. Are you kidding? They don’t do their job. Hasn’t that been evident?
You will not see me defend the oppression of women or glbt people in countries governed by ultra-orthodox Islamists. That stuff is terrible, if you ask me.
But that is apples to oranges - the point I make is that the public statements of extreme religious figures in American Christianity have a lot in common with the public statements of extreme Islamic religious figures. But you are EXACTLY right to point out that it is the duty of Americans to prevent religion from being used to oppress women and glbt folks. Keep it up!
“Well, then it’s pretty useless to argue with you, isn’t it? You’ll believe anything that KK insinuates, since it fits your pre-conceived notions of this religion.”
That’s exactly right. There is no debate here about the Islamic religion. It is a terrible religion. Period. The Muslims can all go back home and take their damn religion with them and stay there for all I care.
Okay, I’ll just say it:
The “problem” of an Islamic run school in Minnesota was made possible by (and INEVITABLE by) the push by KK and others for charter schools, vouchers, and other attempts to erode secular public education.
You did this, KK. It was you.
“Okay, I’ll just say it:
The “problem” of an Islamic run school in Minnesota was made possible by (and INEVITABLE by) the push by KK and others for charter schools, vouchers, and other attempts to erode secular public education.”
i think you might have a point here ak. i have often thought of just this type of outcome when i hear about attempts to get god back in the school. personally, i dont have a problem with limited references to the judeo-chrstian god and jesus. i think it can help to guide a young person’s moral compass. i certainly was concerned that it would allow an opening for the promotion of islam using tax dollars. and im afraid i see to much saudi sponsored wahabi minded school curriculum to feel confortable with foreign influences setting the agenda for american public schools. i believe a significant number of muslim schools will, and do push a seperatist, muslim superiority idealogy. i think americans need to keep closer scrutiny on a culture/religion/political idealogy where recent estimates claim over 90 million of its adherents believe it is required of them to kill, enslave and otherwise subjagate outsiders. its an idealogy that quotes , either correctly or incorrectly , directly from the koran. they believe it is the will of allah that they behave in such a manner.
No, the problem is the Muslims! You don’t hear anything about the Jews demanding special rights for their religion, you don’t hear anything about the Hmong demanding special rights for their religion. So why is there such a huge problem with the Islamic Muslums? Because the the bleeding heart liberals want to kiss Muslim azz for some reason. It must make them feel good about themselves or something.
the most extreme christian viewepoints are held by a very small minoity and are swiftly repuduiated by the mainstream. they are not institutionlized views and practices of americans.
Then why does the GOP pander to these Christian extremists?
“neither haggee or robertson endorse these neandrathalic practices.”
Bush, on the other hand, likes to walk around holding hands with the leaders of these countries. Not that a kiss on the check and some hand-holding are “endorsements” of those same leaders. But still…
There should not be any religion in public schools. That’s what private schools, churches, synagogues and temples are for.
“neither haggee or robertson endorse these neandrathalic practices.”
Bandar Bush anyone?
“Then why does the GOP pander to these Christian extremists?”
im not an apologist for the gop. in my mind they are only microscopically better than the dems. but 5 out of the last 7 administration have been republican. over the last 28 years civil rights in the us for minorities and gays have been strenghthened instead of weakened. you may say thats in spite of the administrations but i also think that the perceived christian extremism is not nearly as extreme nor pervasive as you would think. i believe most americans accept an idea that they are free to practice their way of life and allow their neighbors to live the way they want, in peace.
Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia are sending millions of dollars to the United States to expand Islam. Why can’t those dollars go to fund the Tarek ibn Ziyad Religious Academy instead of tax dollars from hard working Minnesotans? We are already one of the most over taxed states in the country.
Which liberal democrats are responsible for this nonsense anyway?
…over the last 28 years civil rights in the us for minorities and gays have been strenghthened instead of weakened…
Except when it comes to marriage equality, then all bets are off. And in too many states, it is still legal to fire someone based upon their sexual orientation and the GOP consistently opposes efforts to change that.
…i believe most americans accept an idea that they are free to practice their way of life and allow their neighbors to live the way they want, in peace…
I have no problem with this until “they” want to impose their anti-gay religious beliefs upon all of us through the legislative process. And that is still happening with far too common occurrence. (Examples: anti-gay marriage amendments and laws)
Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia are sending millions of dollars to the United States to expand Islam. Why can’t those dollars go to fund the Tarek ibn Ziyad Religious Academy instead of tax dollars from hard working Minnesotans?
So now you support foreigners funding schools in America? Wow! I wonder what the Saudi royal family would think of American dollars funding a Christian school in Saudia Arabia?
JonR,
Of course I don’t support foreigners funding dangerous radical Islamic schools in America, but I’m even more disgusted that you and I are forced to pay for it.
Of course I don’t support foreigners funding dangerous radical Islamic schools in America, but I’m even more disgusted that you and I are forced to pay for it.
Agreed! So why did you even make the suggestion? Hey, that is two issues upon which we agree, the other being that all illegals should be deported.
As for being disgusted, I’m disgusted that some suggest we should issue “school vouchers” so parents can send their children to Christian parochial schools. If one is unacceptable, so must be the other.
JonR,
I’m glad we think alike on many issues, especially the most important ones.
“I have no problem with this until “they” want to impose their anti-gay religious beliefs upon all of us through the legislative process. And that is still happening with far too common occurrence. (Examples: anti-gay marriage amendments and laws)”
gay marriage is one of those polarizing subjects some people with just never agree on. some people believe it is against the laws of god and nature. others believe they were born a certain way and deserver all the rights every other citizen has. despite this seemingly unsolvable social friction, the average person is , i believe alot more tolerant of gay people now than at any other time in our countries history.
“And in too many states, it is still legal to fire someone based upon their sexual orientation and the GOP consistently opposes efforts to change that.”
many states are at “at will” employment state. anyone can be fired for any reason and even no reason. its completely at the employers discretion.
i think the pubs are against any type of action that would strengthen the employees leverage against the employee. im confident that gay people do not face nearly the discrimination that they have in the past and the large majority of citizens do believe in equality for all.
I’m glad we think alike on many issues, especially the most important ones.
Do you or do you not support taxpayer-paid school vouchers so Minnesota parents can send their children to Christian parochial schools?
I do believe in separation of church and state, but with the way liberals have screwed up public schools, I think Christian schools are a great alternative, but you have a point about funding.
…many states are at “at will” employment state. anyone can be fired for any reason and even no reason. its completely at the employers discretion……im confident that gay people do not face nearly the discrimination that they have in the past…
If you truly believe that, I have an Iraqi iceberg for sale.
…the large majority of citizens do believe in equality for all…
Then why do Republicans oppose marriage equality for gays and lesbians?
“Do you or do you not support taxpayer-paid school vouchers so Minnesota parents can send their children to Christian parochial schools? ”
i know it was a question for dare, but im against it mainly because it will also allow state funded muslim schools. i believe certain ideas, like all men are endowed with individual rights by their creator and not some arbitrary goverment created rights. and the teachings of the 10 commandements are good for our children. i dont want to open the door to schools who teach the offspring of other faiths are created from pigs and monkeys.
Good point stevek!
“Then why do Republicans oppose marriage equality for gays and lesbians?”
you know the answer to that. many republicans believe gay people choose to lead an immoral deviant lifestyle. others believe that gay people should be able to enter a civil contract with most of the same rights as married people.
The question of taxpayers paying for Muslim schools wouldn’t even have come up if it wasn’t for our liberal welfare state attracting groups like the Somali’s by the thousands every year. They don’t have that problem in places like South Dakota where there is NO STATE INCOME TAX.
Taxes are getting way out of control, and the reason is because of liberal democrats and their stupid liberal policies.
stevek,
My question was strictly rhetorical.
d2si,
You have not answered my question regarding taxpayer-paid school vouchers.
I don’t understand why gays can’t get married. It doesn’t cost anyone anything, does it? Of course not. People should keep their religous and personal beliefs out of the equation.
I don’t think taxpayer money should go to any private school. Those are private schools and should be funded privately.
JonR,
I would normally say that since parents have to pay double (public and private) for their kids to go to other than public schools, they should get a tax break. I don’t like to see government run public schools having such a monopoly.
However, if it means taxpayers funding Islamic religious schools, I’m against all special funding.
Does that answer your question?
“They don’t have that problem in places like South Dakota where there is NO STATE INCOME TAX.”
Or jobs.
To answer her question, yes, taxpayers probably are, but I guess Katherine is pretty naive to the way our government spends our tax money on many things because I could come up with 100 different examples that are questionable, and so could you if you did the research. But, Katherine has an agenda, and that is to focus on Islam, because she hates Islam and is afraid of it. That is why she chose to focus on how TIZA is breaking all the rules vs. why isn’t the charter program monitoring the practices and doing something about it. Did she bother to question or interview the Charter program directors?
Too bad for the hate she must have within your soul. I see no difference between her hate and the hate of the terrorist…how miserable she must be. Kill them with love right? Something she will never understand.
Peace,
Ijaz
(Devout moderate Muslim and proud American citizen, but not proud of some citizens like her)
“If you truly believe that, I have an Iraqi iceberg for sale.”
honestly, its not a subject i spend much time pondering. my sexual oreintation is not toward my own gender, nor do i feel it neccessary to express any opposition against those who are gay. i have to mostly follow my perception about how others around me react and how gay people are portrayed in the media.
when i was growing up calling someone gay or implying they were gay were fighting words. gay people were not accepted. they were yhought of as deranged freaks. nowadays it seems most people dont give it a second thought if they find out someone they know is gay. back in my childhood there would never be a show like “queer eys for a straight guy” or whatever its called. mainstream media sometimes seem to celebrate alternate lifestyles.
the times have certainly changed.
Remember: Fatah is the moderate group, that sincerely wants peace with Israel. Fatah wants peace, this I know, for George and Condi tell me so. And remember: Islam is a religion of peace — George and Condi told us that also, and no number of stories like this will ever convince them otherwise. Celebrate a mass murderer as a martyr? Never! What are you, some kind of Islamophobe?
IsraelNN.com) Mahmoud Abbas’s official Palestinian Authority daily newspaper has honored the terrorist who gunned down eight high school students at point blank range with the status of shahid, or holy Islamic martyr.
The official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida prominently placed a picture of the point-blank child killer on the front page, with the caption, “The Shahid Alaa Abu Dheim.” In a page one article on the massacre at the Mercaz HaRav Kook yeshiva, his crime was again defined as an act of martyrdom (shahada).
i know it was a question for dare, but im against it mainly because it will also allow state funded muslim schools.
Are you implying that if it wasn’t for the possibility of tax dollars going to Muslim schools, you would support tax dollars going to Christian schools? I hope not.
I would normally say that since parents have to pay double (public and private) for their kids to go to other than public schools, they should get a tax break.
Parents have a civic duty to pay taxes. If they want to send their children to a parochial school, that is their choice and no one is forcing them to do so. To give parents a “tax break” for sending their children to parochial schools is simply a way of providing tax dollars for parochial schools.
I don’t understand why gays can’t get married. It doesn’t cost anyone anything, does it? Of course not. People should keep their religous and personal beliefs out of the equation. I don’t think taxpayer money should go to any private school. Those are private schools and should be funded privately.
I agree with all that you have stated.
“Are you implying that if it wasn’t for the possibility of tax dollars going to Muslim schools, you would support tax dollars going to Christian schools? I hope not.”
i would not mind some assistance to help private schools if it didnt open a loophole for aide to muslim schools.
In my opinion, private schools including Christian schools perform nuch better than public schools, but from experience we know that Muslim schools aren’t in the best interest of America.
If TIZA is indeed in violation of the State requirements, it should be stripped off its tax-payers funding. Period. However, given the unbridled hatred demonstrated by KK towards Islam and Muslims, one has to really read all that KK has written with extra caution.
I am surprised that the Star Tribune is ready to play with its credibility by employing KK whose gutter journalism has time and again been exposed.
I am sure that the law will take its course in determining whether TIZA violated any provisions of charter schools or not.
stevek and d2si,
Why should tax dollars support private schools?
In my opinion, private schools including Christian schools perform nuch better than public schools…
Private schools can pick and choose from the best and brightest students which leaves the public schools with the rest. Of course private schools can show better academic achievement.
JonR,
The students in private schools are the best because the schools don’t put up with the crap allowed in public schools.
“stevek and d2si,
Why should tax dollars support private schools?”
i dont know jon, why do we pay for people to immigrate to this country and go on welfare? why do we pay for drug hormone therapy for people in prison who have broken the law and successfully sued for the taxpayers to pick up the bill?
I agree. Money is much more foolishly spent on funding the Minnesota Welfare Magnet than anything else.
Public schools need to have competition and accountability. How you do that and “prevent” the public funding of some schools that have a religious agenda, is very difficult. The bottom line is public schools need competition. Otherwise they become comfortable and complacent.
Is anyone else bothered by the commercials from Education Minnesota?
We all pay the teachers, and I would wager that these commercials are mostly funded by their dues. That means we are paying for commercals, that ask us to give more money to the people, who are running this commercial.
Nice gig if you can get it.
“The students in private schools are the best because the schools don’t put up with the crap allowed in public schools.”
And they can cost 2x-5x (or more) as much for each student compared to what it costs public schools to teach each student.
But let’s rip on public school waste instead.
“Is anyone else bothered by the commercials from Education Minnesota?”
These commercials are awful and racist. They have an older balding white guy in a suit calling for “mediocrity”. How many millions of dollars in tax money did the running of this commercial over and over and over cost taxpayers, just to ask for more millions of dollars in funding?
Good night everyone!
How you do that and “prevent” the public funding of some schools that have a religious agenda, is very difficult.
What is so difficult? No tax dollars for private schools…period.
And if you oppose tax dollars for the Twins stadium and the proposed Vikings stadium, as I do, how can you logically support giving tax dollars to private schools. Those schools are just as much a private enterprise as are the Twins and the Vikings.
We all pay the teachers, and I would wager that these commercials are mostly funded by their dues. That means we are paying for commercals, that ask us to give more money to the people, who are running this commercial. Nice gig if you can get it.
Are you suggesting that you should be able to dictate to a teacher how she can spend her salary? Now that is big government. What will be next? She cannot spend her salary to buy birth control pills?
This article is long overdue. I have had questions and concerns regarding the funding of this school for quite some time. My son attended two different charter schools and I became quite involved with the charter school “movement” in Minnesota. Charter schools were never intended to fund segregating children by culture - this goes against everything that free public school did in helping immigrants from all countries assimilate in the United States. I have similar concerns with the Hmong school in St. Paul. What is happening with many muslim immigrants is very different than past generations of immigrants. Unfortunately, if you speak up about this issue, you are immediately labeled a racist. I have lived overseas as a Peace Corps volunteer and travelled all over the world, including to muslim countries. I would strongly encourage people to read the book Infidel by Hirsi Ali to gain a better understanding of the different dynamics at work. If anyone tried to send a non-muslim child to TIZA, the child would be ostracized and forced out. TIZA should not be receiving public funds and we should be able to have an open discussion regarding this school or any other school that is based on religion. The muslim culture and religion are intertwined - we do not have to allow this in our public school system, however. Thank you for bringing this topic up. My guess is that anyone who would be able to do anything about this will be too afraid to “offend” people to actually deal with it. What a double-standard. Thanks
What is so difficult?
Schools require a certain amount of infrastructure. Religious groups have natural advantage.
And if you oppose tax dollars for the Twins stadium and the proposed Vikings stadium.
I do. So how do we foster some competition? You didn’t address that.
Are you suggesting that you should be able to dictate to a teacher how she can spend her salary?
Absolutely not. The question is should public employees be allowed to advertise for more funding of their particular department.
If this is a public school then why did they deny interviews and tours? Would I as a concerned citizen be able to tour and review the curriculm in the same manner as I did when I selected a school for our child at other public schools? If not, then this is not a public school and the funding should stop ASAP! The curriculm is my main concern. Do they teach the values of Americans? If they do not teach equality for all and our other freedoms and beliefs that this country was founded on, then this is not a public school.
All Americans (or people who have chosen to live here) should remember why they have made this country - HOME - for the freedoms and opportunities that it provides. If they want to live with less freedoms within their own lives then that is their choice. But those beliefs should be taught at home, in their place of worship or gathering place. Not in our schools!
The question is should public employees be allowed to advertise for more funding of their particular department.
True, a teacher’s salary comes from tax dollars. But her salary is personal income, just as is yours, and she is free to spend her salary as she so chooses. And why shouldn’t she be able to advocate for more funding for her profession? It is called Free Speech.
I have mixed feelings about the school.
One thing children need to do is learn the English language. Children need to read, write, speak, and be taught in English.
English is not just the American language, it is the universal language of humans.
Learning other languages is good. Dividing and separating people based on language, is not. Unless, the goal is to have a divided society. In America, all other languages need to be far secondary to English.
Failing to teach children in English, creates dependent sub-cultures unable to compete and fully participate in American society.
Hmmm, where to start?
If this Islamic school is public, then:
1) Do they display the American flag?
2) Is prayer time built into their curriculum day? If so, that eliminates it as a public school.
3) Do they say the Pledge of Allegiance?
4) Who is paying for the Islamic studies classes at 3:30 p.m., when the regular school day ends?
5) If a private group is responsible for the “after school” Islamic studies, then they should have to pay to rent the building space.
6) Which, by the way, every public school I know rents out their building space on various times/days/nights for many different groups - sports, plays, etc. If the after school group is allowed to use the space for free, then this “American” public school has to allow free use to other groups as well.
7) Do they display or discuss any religious teaching specifically of the Muslim faith during the day? One public school in the Twin Cities that I am familiar with, it was a big hoopla when an employee put a fake 12″ high UNDECORATED pine tree at their desk during the winter holiday season - it was said it could be considered religious. Snowflakes are allowed as decorations, but not Santa or reindeer - they weren’t even trying for Jesus to be displayed. Heaven forbid.
I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT IF IMMIGRANTS CHOOSE TO COME TO AMERICA, IT SHOULD BE BECAUSE THEY FEEL THEY WANT TO BE AMERICAN, AND PARTICIPATE IN THE AMERICAN CULTURE. IF EVERYTHING WAS FINE IN THEIR COUNTRY, THEN WHY COME HERE? AND IF IT WASN’T FINE IN THEIR OTHER COUNTRY, THEN WHY COME HERE AND TRY TO DUPLICATE WHAT WAS ALREADY NOT WORKING THERE?
KK’s article brings to light what I see as even a bigger problem than just this one school.
Some of the others already said it, and I want to say I agree, we need to really concentrate on removing illegal immigrants.
Why? Why not just “leave them alone, they’re not hurting anyone” you ask?
They are hurting people - specially LEGAL CITIZENS AND IMMIGRANTS. Obviously if someone if here illegally, they are not being claimed on anyone’s taxes. I believe this is a huge issue because, for example, if family “XYZ” down the block has one legal adult immigrant living here with four children, and has an illegal immigrant spouse living there as well, I believe and have seen some of the following to occur:
a) the illegal is obviously not listed on any tax returns; this affects how much taxes the legal immigrant has to or does not have to pay.
b) if this family is claiming to have four children with only one adult head of household, you can betcha they would probably qualify and take full advantage of any and all free or reduced offerings MN doles out - free school lunches, medical care, welfare, food shelves, toys at holiday time, free bussing for certain things. I’m sure the list goes on but as I’m not an illegal immigrant family, I don’t even know everything offered.
c) The illegal immigrant, and many times even the adult legal immigrants CHOOSE not to learn English, which creates many more problems for society, including the public schools. I say “choose” not to learn English, because I AM familiar with more than one non-English speaking household, where the adults have lived here for many years, and still don’t speak English and ask their little kids, who do learn English in school, to do their translating for them. It is so pathetic, not to mention unfair, to put this burden on a 7-year old to have to be the family spokesperson.
Did we not just hear about another illegal Mexican driving without a license? Who’s paying for all of the problems associated with that woman driver and all the legal entities now involved? We, the tax-paying Americans!
IT DOES SEEM TO BE THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY WHO SEEMS TO CRY THE LOUDEST AND MOST OFTEN, IF THEY FEEL ANY OF THEIR RELIGIOUS RIGHTS ARE BEING IMPEDED OR NOT RESPECTED. IT DOESN’T SEEM THAT THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IS TRYING TO BLEND IN AT ALL AS AMERICANS; THEY JUST WANT TO USE UNITED STATES LAND TO EXTEND THEIR VIEWS, VALUES, AND VIOLENCES TO FURTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.
CALL ME WHAT YOU WANT, BUT THE OBSERVATIONS I HAVE MADE, HAVE ALL BEEN PERSONALLY WITNESSED, EXPERIENCED; NOT THROUGH WORD OF MOUTH.
Here is some more information on the school:
One last thing before I log off for the night.
Public schools are required to have interpreters available during school conferences, or even individual meetings if parents come in and want an interpreter. How much do you think that is costing us? Any public schools seem very afraid NOT to bend over backward to accommodate these families because otherwise they are called discrimating, racist, and threatened with lawsuits.
It’s time the tax payers start seeing the true rewards that should come from paying taxes - benefitting many, increasing productivity and English learning; not continuing to segregate by having to pay for special, separate groups for school, during school, after school.
P.S. If the Muslim taxi drivers don’t want to transport passengers who have alcohol - then they need to hang a RELIGIOUS sign on their taxi, letting Americans carrying any alcohol know they are not welcome! Can we wear a rosary around our neck and ride in the taxi’s?
Trina321,
You expressed great concern about legal and illegal immigrants choosing to not learn English. I agree with you that people should learn the English language if they’re going to live here.
Perhaps you can share with us your personal story of why you have chosen to not learn English. While your writing is filled with poor grammar and English in general, I congratulate you for trying to learn. You obviously are speaking from experience when you say that not learning English can create problems. What types of problems have you had to deal with due to your own lack of knowledge of the English language? Please share. If you need help with the writing, please let me know.
Trina123 asks:
“1) Do they display the American flag?”
I’m sure there isn’t an American flag to be found there, just like Barak Hussein Obama refuses to wear an American flag lapel pin like all the other Presidential candidates.
JonR says : “Or, KK, would you be as upset if the Catholic-run Hill Murray High School received taxpayer dollars? If not, you should be.”
Serious Jon you have an obsession with this religion thing that must be destroying your life. Let it go man.
“If you need help with the writing, please let me know.”
what a wonderful person you are khalid with that heart felt offer. perhaps you can arrange to meet this poor person and tutor him.
oh AND YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED EB’s QUESTIONS !!!!!!!!
Kahlid,
Or may I address you as “stevek’s donkey’s half brother”.
If you need help with you pro american christian reeducation I would like to offer you my services.
Its nice of you to slither on through again.
Serious tiny you have an obsession with this Kristofferson thing that must be destroying your life. Let it go man.
Ya know. Ya know what this is.
This is feel good funding for another no good cause.
Its the crazy guy in the neighborhood thing.
the neighbors pitch in and fix his roof, mow his lawn, clean his yard. Hell, they may even give him a ride to the store once in awhile. And he still yells and cusses at the kids when they walk by.
trina, your writing is just fine. khalid is a butt hole.
The bottom line on this mess is that this school needs to be investigated and monitored. If it is a school just for Muslim children and has any religious overtones, then taxpayer funding should be rescinded.
The question is: has anyone, KK?, contacted the Board of Education about this situation?
“contacted the Board of Education about this situation?”
Its more money for the teachers union. Why would they mess with that.
“Learning other languages is good. Dividing and separating people based on language, is not. Unless, the goal is to have a divided society. In America, all other languages need to be far secondary to English.
Failing to teach children in English, creates dependent sub-cultures unable to compete and fully participate in American society. ”
le8, may i humbly suggest that you may be a prophet ?? i have to apologize for saying this, but i agree with you 100%.
GO, but I always Thought you where cool until this Kristofferson thing came up. Its a big let down for Tiny.
tiny, but I always Thought you where cool until this Kristofferson thing came up. Its a big let down for GO.
It would be like somebody finding Fleetwood Mac CD’s stashed in Tinys underwear drawer!
It would be like somebody finding Fleetwood Mac CD’s stashed in Tinys underwear drawer!
What happen to this blog while I was gone? Deadsville.
What happen to this blog while I was gone? Deadsville.
Asad Zaman, TIZA’s principal, declined to allow me to visit the school or grant me an interview.
Since when is permission needed to visit a public school? You may not be allowed to wander the building unescorted, but surely you could drop by and go to the office without an invitation. Perhaps the people charged with ensuring that this school is indeed not a religious one should do just that if they have not already.
Given Katherine’s tendencies toward omission and innuendo (it’s that pesky smoke-and-mirrors thing again), I hesitate to jump on her bandwagon about this school. That said, I am concerned about some issues raised, the most serious being the apparent violation of the principle of church-state separation. Taxpayers should not be forced to pay for anyone’s religious indoctrination.
I will also join those posters who have already pointed out Katherine’s hypocrisy of deriding public funds for an Islamic school while defending public funds for Christian schools. Taxpayers should fund no religious school. If it is important that your child be educated in a religious setting, send him or her to a private religious school and pay for it yourself.
The apparent lack of non-Muslims at this school should concern everyone. How are the students at TIZA going to learn to interact with their non-Muslim countrymen? Or do they intend to isolate themselves from the general population for the rest of their lives? If Muslims are so concerned about their increasingly tarnished image in the United States, why wouldn’t they want their children to attend more diverse schools? I can think of no better way to combat that blemished image than integrating into our greater society.
At its 2007 convention, MAS-MN featured the notorious Shayk Khalid Yasin, who is well-known in Britain and Australia for teaching that husbands can beat disobedient wives, that gays should be executed and that the United States spreads the AIDS virus in Africa through vaccines for tropical diseases.
Katherine, given your past anti-gay columns, your concern for us GLBT folk rings false. I find it insulting that you drip with concern only when it suits your agenda.
If it’s receiving public funds, it should not be, during the school day, requiring classes on or enforcing a practice of a religion. That being said, I would find it hard NOT to study religion (or Islam) if one is focusing on non-Western culture. What I’d want to know is HOW is it being taught… like my religion classes from my Catholic grade school or as a general aspect of the culture — like in my humanities class in public high school. As for the after school activities, if they are optional, I don’t see how they’re different from kids using public school facilities for after/before school Bible study.
If stevek agrees with me perhaps I need to rethink my position.
No, I really do think that children need to learn, and be taught in the English language.
My reasoning and motives are probably different than stevek’s. I want to see children of immigrants empowered, and I want to see them succeed.
I do have some misgivings about the school, but I don’t even want to mention them here. This blog has become another vehicle for people to spew venom towards Islam and Muslim people. I hesitate to express an honest concern, because it might be construed as as jumping on the hate wagon.
“As for the after school activities, if they are optional, I don’t see how they’re different from kids using public school facilities for after/before school Bible study.”
what id like to know about the after school activities is who is paying for the bomb making materials and assault rifles. hopefully not the taxpayers.
in all seriousn le, i also want to see them succeed and assimilate. i do not want the us to become a country like iraq that is a collection of peoples with very different cultures. i find it hard to imagine that would bring benificial long term stability. the us has long been the only power keeping the enlightened western european culture alive. and i am afraid its enemies realize this to and are working in many ways to undermine it.
It is not true that anyone can come to a publicly funded school and br granted access. However, all publicly funded schools must hold open, public board meetings. I am sure anyone especially concerned about this school’s operations will be attending.
“is a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Its approximately 300 students are mostly the children of low-income Muslim immigrant families, many of them Somalis.”
And guess why they’re living in Dakota County? I know! Because Dakota County is one of the higher paying welfare counties!
Khalid, I appreciate your contributions to the blog. You offer valuable insight and a perspective different than what is most often expressed here.
That said, I would like to offer a friendly recommendation. That is, to direct your comments toward the issues, rather than at the people posting. I understand how this is difficult, when you are being called names and your faith is being attacked.
Over a period of months, I have come to truly like all the regulars posting here. I can say that, making no exceptions. Some of my favorite people, are those who I often disagree with the most. I see people as being less than perfect. I am perhaps, the least perfect person I know. I like myself, so for the people posting here, I find it quite easy to like them a lot.
I would just like to suggest you try a more friendly approach. You have a lot of interesting things to say. I want to hear more from you on the issues.
“And guess why they’re living in Dakota County? I know! Because Dakota County is one of the higher paying welfare counties!”
I thought it was because its a no T-paper wipe zone.
And guess why they’re living in Dakota County? I know! Because Dakota County is one of the higher paying welfare counties!
diamondgrl = dare2sayit?
The Irony on this whole period will be the fact that we bought their oil and we where tolerant of their beliefs (which are in fact intolerant beliefs) which paved the way for them to kill us.
We’re fools.
The Irony on this whole period will be the fact that we bought their oil and we where tolerant of their beliefs (which are in fact intolerant beliefs) which paved the way for them to kill us.
We’re fools.
The Irony on this whole period will be the fact that we bought their oil and we where tolerant of their beliefs (which are in fact intolerant beliefs) which paved the way for them to kill us.
We’re fools.
“what id like to know about the after school activities is who is paying for the bomb making materials and assault rifles. hopefully not the taxpayers.”
Usually it’s the White Supremacists, but somehow I doubt they’ll be financing this one.
“Usually it’s the White Supremacists, but somehow I doubt they’ll be financing this one.”
well, as long as its not the taxpayers. i dont have a problem with people expressing themselves. and i certainly wouldnt wouldnt wish to offend them by restricting anyones allah given right to practice ones religion how they see fit. i just dont think the taxpers should foot the bill.
ps. i love you to le8 : )
“ps. i love you to le8:)”
I love you too, stevek. In a Barney, the purple dinosaur, sort of way.
“diamondgrl = dare2sayit?”
Nope. But if you recall, a couple of months ago, there was an article in the paper about a Somali leader that was directing Somali immigrants to the highest paying counties.
“Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota.”
Whats the role for woman in this “Successful Muslim Community”.
“Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota.”
How about liquor stores? Can we have them in this “Successful Muslim Community?”
“Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota.”
How about a Famous Daves on the corner? Can we have them in this “Successful Muslim Community?”
“I love you too, stevek. In a Barney, the purple dinosaur, sort of way.”
then it would make me very happy if you were a member of my backyard gang
“Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota.”
Whats the role for woman in this “Successful Muslim Community”.
“Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota.”
How about liquor stores? Can we have them in this “Successful Muslim Community?”
“Building a Successful Muslim Community in Minnesota.”
How about a Famous Daves on the corner? Can we have them in this “Successful Muslim Community?”
Leland8 and stevek,
GET A ROOM!!!
Leland8,
Thanks for your comments. They are appreciated. If you peel through the layers, you will find a bit of wisdom even in what you refer to as my less friendly blogs. And I am definitely sticking to the issues.
I found irony in a post by someone who bemoans the fact that there are those who choose not to learn English as she butchers the English language in the process. I stuck to the issue she raised, albeit in a sarcastic manner. I do agree with her by the way. I just think she should follow her own advice.
And it raises an interesting point that I believe many here should consider. There is a great deal of hypocrisy in this blog and others like it.
“Take the log out of your own eye before you take the speck of dust out of your neighbor’s eye”.
Don’t get me wrong I consider myself pretty tolerant. But I wonder if Islam is really a religion that can survive in its strictest form in the 21 century. There is something inherently evil about it and its intolerances.
I think we are fools if you don’t recognize that fact.
“Take the log out of your own eye before you take the speck of dust out of your neighbor’s eye”.
Take A log or THE log “out of your own eye”
I gots your log right here buddy !
“Leland8 and stevek,
GET A ROOM!!!”
lol. your just jealous G. i remember you and le8 planning that little tete-a-te without me !!!
Hi, all,
One difference between Christianity and Islam, which I think absolutely fundamental, and which I can’t remember seeing discussed here, is this: Jesus said publicly “Render to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”
This idea was - centuries later - one of the foundations of Western civilization. The story of the relationship between religious and secular authority in the Christian West is complex, with many twists and turns. That said, I can say with confidence that there was never a time in the middle ages (ca 500 - ca 1500) when religion totally controlled civil law or vice versa
But after about 1525 with the German and English Reformations, there was total civil control of religion in the form of established churches whose heads were the secular rulers and which were supported by taxation - especially in England. Read about cujus regio ejus religio and the dissolution of the monasteries in England.
Back to the “Founder of the Firm” and the distinction in Christianity between religious and civil authority. In Islam there is no such distinction, which is why I think Christianity fits America better than Islam does.
This is very simple. Just send some plain white, christian male student to the school and see if they will completely do away with anything that has to do with the muslim faith or any religious type belief or country based ideas, you know like they have done with our public schools, and if they do then they deserve our tax dollars. Tax paying Americans better smarten up and stand their ground quickly because if you think this is the only place your money is being spent to fund something that you don’t support you live in a cave cut off from everyday living. Just look at the housing and transportation you are providing. And the next time you are in the grocery store wondering if you can really afford this hamburger as the person in front of you pays for his T-Bone steak with food stamps just think about what you would get from the government if you were laid off from your job. I can tell you right now the answer most likely will be $0. Look past the school issue and look at the population issue soon your opinion will not matter or count anymore anyway.
“Leland8 and stevek,
GET A ROOM!!!”
Could them boys get a room in the “Successful Muslim Community?”
Mr. Khalid, Thank you for your response. You are correct, upon further evaluation, your posts were addressing issues and making valid points. Continue on as you see fit. It isn’t my place to correct you, anyway.
I have a question, for which I would like your opinion. Many people have raised the issue of Mr. Barack Obama possibly being Muslim. Of course, those raising this issue are often doing it in a negative way, as an attack on Obama. That aside, I would like your opinion as to whether you think Mr. Obama may in fact be Muslim.
I have read where some Muslim people believe that if born to a Muslim father, a person is Muslim. Others, I am sure, would disagree. There is a Muslim group in the US that supports Obama. Some people there, seem inclined to this belief. I will try to find a link.
Perhaps it is wishful thinking on my part that Obama may be Muslim. I hope someday soon there will be a Muslim President. I know that there will be someday in the future. Perhaps not in my lifetime.
I’m directing my comments to those who are offended by Kersten’s column, but more specifically to those Muslims who are offended and who doubt her objectivity. (I am excluding anyone who was not born into a Muslim family, that is, anyone who is a convert to Islam.) If anyone chooses to respond to these comments, please do not take me back into history, ancient or otherwise, to justify your thinking. Keep your context current. The context of this argument is a modern school in Minnesota that accepts public funding but obviously offers a Muslim-based environment to learn. Would or does this school teach its students that all religions can be equally practiced and that all religions are equally valid in our pluralistic America? If a youngster asked a teacher, “Is it right to call Jews pigs and apes?” would he answer “Of course not.” If a youngster asked a teacher, “Is it right for Muslim citizens to believe their sharia law is above the civil law of the United States? would he answer, “No, it is not.” So I am wondering, as perhaps Kersten is, what kind of school this is and what it is teaching its American Muslim students. If these questions cannot be answered without a defensive attitude, then we have a right to be very concerned.
Just to clarify a point: I have no problem with a Christian or Jewish President, either. I just think a Muslim President could do much to balance the scales, and contribute to the country’s equilibrium.
“Just to clarify a point: I have no problem with a Christian or Jewish President, either. ”
How about a Santarian President le ??? what , you have something against voodo witch doctors ??? what are you some kind of voodoo-phobe ???? i am sick and tired of you haters !!!
we had come so far le, i guess we have a longer path to ravel until bigotry is wiped out in this country than i had imagined.
“I just think a Muslim President could do much to balance the scales, and contribute to the country’s equilibrium.”
I’d like to give that internment camps thing another try first if you don’t mind.
“I just think a Muslim President could do much to balance the scales, and contribute to the country’s equilibrium.”
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOO!
leland, sometimes you have something intelligent to say and other times I think you’ve gone around the bend.
Split personality?
leland8 = Cybil?
“‘Is it right to call Jews pigs and apes?’”.
The most vile thing any Muslim person may have ever uttered, is used with a broad brush to vilify every Muslim person.
I give up.
diamongrl, In you mind you have demonized Muslim people and Islam. Islam, is in part, very much about justice and peace. Justice, especially as far as US policy in the Mideast is concerned, has been sorely lacking. Peace, has been obviously lacking as well. A Muslim President could advance policy that brings about the equilibrium I am talking about. A restoration of justice, could bring about lasting peace.
“diamongrl, In you mind you have demonized Muslim people and Islam.”
Just the Islam part.
letsnotpretend,
I can respond to your questions with a degree of credibility that KK cannot claim on this topic. The answers to your questions are as follows: If a student in the school called a non-Muslim a “pig” or any other offensive name, not only would he/she be told that this is wrong. There would be appropriate discipline involved(too bad that standard doesn’t apply to posters of this blog). I have personally visited the school and can confirm that it is not an Islamic school and tax dollars are not paying for students to learn Islam.
The answer to your second question would be consistent with the answer to your first. Students would be taught that they are to be law-abiding citizens and respect the laws of the United States. This can be confirmed with data that shows that the Muslim population in the U.S. is among the best educated and most law abiding in the country.
Furthermore, I know for a fact that an overwhelming majority of the teachers in the school are white christians. This alone blows Kersten’s silly claims out of the water. Ask yourself this question: How can this be an Islamic school if most of the teachers overwhelmingly) are christian?
Kersten offers nothing but innuendo and unsubstantiated claims as she always does. She plays on people’s fears and, frankly, I am amazed by how many people fall for her games over and over again. She has repeatedly shown herself to be like the “boy who cried wolf”. I’m afraid that by the time she offers a credible story, it will be too late and no one will believe her.
the santarian chango cult was brought to Cuba, Brazil, Haiti, Trinidad and Puerto Rico by the evil slave traders. justice, nor any kind of recompse has ever been provided to the changonians. i believe we need a chango president in order to counter balance these grave injustices performed upon these people by eveil westerners.
all i am saying, is give peace a chance.
The most vile thing any Muslim person may have ever uttered, is used with a broad brush to vilify every Muslim person
Leland,
Please explain how letsnotpretend vilified every muslim? It was an example.
And now this,
diamongrl, In you mind you have demonized Muslim people and Islam
Demonized????
These are the kinds of things that make others think Muslims are just a little too sensitive about slights real and perceived toward their religion. It’s also the type of over reaction that lead people to wanting to kill over the name of a teddy bear.
Islam, is in part, very much about justice and peace.
What “justice and peace” is there in executing a teacher whose eight-year old students named a teddy bear “Mohammed?” What “justice and peace” is there in executing people who publish “insulting” cartoons or plays? What “justice and peace” is there in stoning rape victims because they were in public unaccompanied by a male relative? What “justice and peace” is there in hanging supposedly gay teenagers? If this is your idea of “justice and peace,” I’d appreciate an explanation.
“The answers to your questions are as follows: If a student in the school called a non-Muslim a “pig” or any other offensive name, not only would he/she be told that this is wrong.”
Personally I’M NOT BUYIN’ IT! Thats what they teach in these schools.You know Mickey Mouse teaching kids to hate infidels and Jews. It’s the Norm not the exception. And the last person I’m going to believe is a guy named Khalid .
“Just the Islam part.”
Okay fine. Well, I respect Islam. I am in awe of this great religion. I have some understanding of it, but I can’t defend the religion, as I am certainly no scholar. I am not Muslim either, so it is not my place to defend Islam, anyway. That is the job of Muslim people.
Leland8,
In response to your question about Obama being Muslim, my understanding is that he was born to a Muslim father. However, he is now a practicing Christian and I think that’s the belief of most Muslims.
The idea he might be Muslim is spread by the right-wing as a fear mongering ploy. To support my claim, there is an important point one must consider. One of the articles of faith in Islam is to declare your faith(shahada). Thus, by definition, Obama is not a Muslim if he has not declared it publicly.
I think in the end after we are done pussy-footin’ around here, the religion is going to have to conform to a modern day standard or be eliminated. End of story PERIOD
“The idea he might be Muslim is spread by the right-wing as a fear mongering ploy.”
Didn’t know the Clintons where right-wing.
Hey Khalid I’ve seen some real Dopes on this blog in my time. You’re racing to the top pretty fast, son.
Evil Baby Fauvel says:
March 10th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
What “justice and peace” is there in executing a teacher whose eight-year old students named a teddy bear “Mohammed?” What “justice and peace” is there in executing people who publish “insulting” cartoons or plays? What “justice and peace” is there in stoning rape victims because they were in public unaccompanied by a male relative? What “justice and peace” is there in hanging supposedly gay teenagers? If this is your idea of “justice and peace,” I’d appreciate an explanation.
Evil, there is no justice or peace in any of these events. And none of them were based on Islamic teachings. They are all based on extremists who misrepresent Islam. This is no different from extremists in any religion. Muslim extremists just get more press since 9/11. Could it be that the media is being selective in how it wants to portray Islam?
I have attended roughly 2,000 religious sermons and lectures in my lifetime. I have read countless more books and viewed hundreds of video taped lectures about Islam. I have never heard anything in any of these sermons, lectures or tapes that calls for violence as people here suggest. These are extremist, perverted views of a beautiful, comprehensive faith.
Hey EBF–
Here’s news of a Democratic Sex Scandal!!!! SPITZER!!!!! MWahahahahaha hookers!
AWESOME!
Tiny,
I have little regard for a man who brags about and offers up his “tiny” log. If and when you become more secure with yourself as a man, I’ll revisit the matter.
How about a good “honor killing”. Extremist perverted views, Khalid ?
Or what do you say we hang some gay dudes, Khalid ?
And nothin’ better then munching on some popcorn and watchin’ a good public stoning.
I guess I don’t understand. Just cultural differences ?????????????????
Khalid, thanks for your post. OK, I hope you are correct, since you are not on staff and yes, have visited the school. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this. But to brand Kersten as just posting innuendo is to do her grave injustice. She has uncovered more than a few suspect connections (with names, dates and references) that when connecting the dots do raise suspicions for some of us. I don’t think her tone is nearly as combative or “ad hominem” as yours, my friend. Lighten up a bit and allow us to voice our concerns. A reasoned but undefensive response can go a long way to put our concerns to rest. After all, Muslims from more than a few sectors and over a long time have raised our attention with statements that lead us to wonder whose side they are on. If you can’t appreciate this, then I wouldn’t wonder how you could have a problem with Kersten.
I have little regard for a man who brags about and offers up his “tiny” log. If and when you become more secure with yourself as a man, I’ll revisit the matter.
This could make the old Brimn, MarkA battles look tame!!
“Didn’t know the Clintons where right-wing.”
No, just courting them.
“What “justice and peace” is there in executing a teacher whose eight-year old students named a teddy bear “Mohammed?” What “justice and peace” is there in executing people who publish “insulting” cartoons or plays? What “justice and peace” is there in stoning rape victims because they were in public unaccompanied by a male relative? What “justice and peace” is there in hanging supposedly gay teenagers? If this is your idea of “justice and peace,””
And Christianity is the religion of compassion and yet sanctioned the torture and savage murder of tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people during the Inquisition as a matter of doctrine. Should we also judge Christians by its worst proponents, or do they get a pass because that’s all behind them and their public wackos aren’t in as much control as they used to be?
poor EB is still seeking answers to questions he put forth to khalid many days ago. khalid, in perfect islamic apologist fashion will continue to refuse acknowledging any of the questions or problems exist, while in a wholehardely blow hard like manner insist he has answered all critics of his much maligned indefatigably insulted and offended brethren.
letsnotpretend,
I would be happy to address and respond to these suspect connections you say she has made. I’ve read every column and blog she has written about Muslims and Islam over the past couple of years and, overwhelmingly, her claims are weak, if not totally false.
Her writing consists of taking parts of quotes from reporting others have done to help shape her story and agenda. I know this because I go back and read her sources completely. I also know this because in many cases I know the whole story before she has written about it.
Rarely does she actually interview people. Instead, she reads published articles and uses what fits her agenda.
By the way, I’ve spoken to a number of writers and editors at the Star Tribune and other publications. And your view of her work would be in the minority if you worked for a local publication with mass readership.
Stevek,
As usual, you speak of that which you do not know. Rest assured I am responding to EB in private.
Evil, there is no justice or peace in any of these events. And none of them were based on Islamic teachings.
I’m pleased that you believe this.
They are all based on extremists who misrepresent Islam.
I’m not so sure, Khalid. I bring up these specific events because they involved a large number of people. It wasn’t some kooky sect whose membership can claim a dozen people. How many people rioted in Sudan, where the teddy bear incident happened? How many riots were reported throughout Asia over the cartoon incident? It’s the government of an entire Islamic nation – Iran – that is hanging supposedly gay teenagers, and the government of another Islamic nation – Saudi Arabia – that was going to stone the rape victim. Are the entire populations of Iran and Saudi Arabia “extremists?” If so many people adhere to the interpretations of Islam practiced there, can it rightfully be called “extreme?”
I have never heard anything in any of these sermons, lectures or tapes that calls for violence as people here suggest. These are extremist, perverted views of a beautiful, comprehensive faith.
Then perhaps you haven’t heard all of the sermons. I can’t believe that there isn’t one example you can find of a hateful Islamic sermon demanding death to the infidels, Jews, Israel and America. Are all of the ayatollahs issuing fatwas demanding the deaths of people like Salman Rushdie and Theo van Gogh practicing an extreme form of Islam? Again, it seems that there’s just too many of them to dismiss them as some fringe element.
And Christianity is the religion of compassion and yet sanctioned the torture and savage murder of tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people during the Inquisition as a matter of doctrine.
The events of the Islamic world that I noted are rather recent; the Inquisition is hardly a modern-day event. Your comparison really isn’t valid.
Should we also judge Christians by its worst proponents, or do they get a pass because that’s all behind them and their public wackos aren’t in as much control as they used to be?
I am not judging all Muslims, but pointing out that a fairly large number of them seem to support the examples I cited. I do not see a similar number of Christians supporting such atrocities, although it’s certainly easy to find a few who do.
Khalid says : “Stevek,As usual, you speak of that which you do not know. Rest assured I am responding to EB in private.”
Really Stevek don’t let that head choppin’ off thing cloud your understanding.
“I am not judging all Muslims, but pointing out that a fairly large number of them seem to support the examples I cited.”
Evil its a bigger percentage then you and I know. Its the norm not the exception.
Should we also judge Christians by its worst proponents,
The unofficial count is still 91 million to one.
“As usual, you speak of that which you do not know. Rest assured I am responding to EB in private.”
good move khalid. lets keep the answers that dispels the ridiculous notion that islam somehow inspires violence confined to private discussions. while huffing and puffing like the big bad wolf how ignorant all your fellow posters behave lololololol.
im sorry khalid, when matching wits, im afraid im arguing with a defenseless unarmed man(?)
Khalid,
I posted this question to Leland awhile back but he could not answer it.
I saw a documentary on the muslim faith and it showed footage of men lined up, on rugs bowing and praying. They were spaced so closly that the butts of the men in the front row were inches from the faces of the men in the next row back.
My question to you is this:
If the guy in front of you busts a gut biscut in your face do you:
A. forgive him
or
B. punch him in the man sack the next time he bows forward.
I await your wisdom on this perplexing issue.
Evil its a bigger percentage then you and I know. Its the norm not the exception.
That is precisely my fear.
GSAHA - OMG! ROTFL!! And not because it pertains to Muslims. If you said that about Christians (of which I am one) I would still think it’s funny!!
“The events of the Islamic world that I noted are rather recent; the Inquisition is hardly a modern-day event. Your comparison really isn’t valid.”
The only difference is the time line. Every faith has its extremists preaching in direct opposition to their religious teachings. Want something more current? How about Dominationists and other Christian Fundamentalist groups and Left Behind True Believers who both have Bush’s ear and eagerly encourage Armageddon as they await the Rapture? I suppose you’ll say they don’t count.
What about the Iraninan president that proclaimed that… “No gays in Iran, ” or “The Holocaust didn’t happen”?
He was the Iranian president! The president, the president, the president!(sorry TinyL, for my plagiarism)
gosh , i miss the days when i was the biggest islamophobe on the blog : (
Has anyone on this list contacted the MN Department of Education and asked for the details regarding the 11 inspection visits that they made to TIZA? Instead of just speculating and believing in half-truths from KK, it might be well worth your time to contact MDE for accurate information.
From TIZA’s website I gather that they were asked to mentor 4 other charter schools.
I reaffirm my assertion that if TIZA broke the law, the State should pull its charter school status. If there were no laws broken, then KK loses whatever credibility that is left with her. I am sorry to note that the Star Tribune could find only such a shoddy “journalist” to present the face of the Right.
Okay, Protestant Christians, here is what your founding father and leader of the Reformation had to say about the Jews. Wow! I didn’t know that’s what you all believe.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies
Hmmm……that didn’t work. I’ll try again.
Here is an example of what I mean about Kersten’s misleading reporting: The following is the conclusion of an investigation that the Normandale Administration, Student Government, and Senate all are in agreement with:
“In December, CAIR-MN met with more than thirty representatives of the Muslim Student Association and the Somali Student Association, as well as a representative from the Normandale student government. All agreed that a meditation room in a public institution is public space where all faiths should be welcome to pray and meditate in according to what their faith teaches. We did not find the anti-women, anti-Semitic, extremist students KK portrayed in her article. What we found was a group of sincere students representing various cultures, traditions, and ideas. Everyone welcomed the CAIR-MN representative, a woman, to the front of the room to lead the meeting. Half of the students in attendance were women. They were sitting at the table and expressed their views; some wore the headscarf and some did not. The women informed us that it was they who had requested the barrier, a portable curtain.
In the article, Kersten quoted an unknown document from the meditation room with anti-Semitic statements. None of the Normandale students we talked to had ever read or come across this document in the meditation room. The Muslim students vehemently condemned the anti-Semitic statements KK mentioned in her article.
The overwhelming majority of students who used the meditation room were Muslim students praying their five daily prayers. In fact, we were told that the meditation room did not exist until the MSA approached the administration for one. The lack of religious symbols in the room from other faiths was not due to exclusion on the Muslim students part, but rather due to the lack of frequent use of the room by other faiths. Additionally, the MSA, SSA, and Student Senate all stated that they had not received any complaints regarding the meditation room.
Kersten sees everything in her own terms rather than as how they are in reality. This is not the first time she has written something that is one-sided and has been disputed by her subjects. In addition to numerous Muslims and Muslim organizations, immigrant rights groups, college administrators, and even the Archdiocese of St. Paul have refuted her false accusations.”
There is plenty more like this!
Yah, Mr8, I know… Even Henry Ford hated Jews. But he didn’t make exploding-cars!
Mr. Rabbit, Okay. I am going to skip doing the link. No one needs to read a bunch of hateful crap, anyway. If people want to read it, they can look it up for themselves.
How about Dominationists and other Christian Fundamentalist groups and Left Behind True Believers who both have Bush’s ear and eagerly encourage Armageddon as they await the Rapture? I suppose you’ll say they don’t count.
You’d be wrong. Since Bush is a modern-day phenomenon, of course they count.
You seem to think that my concerns with Islam do not apply to Christianity or other religions. You are incorrect. As an atheist – and a gay one at that – I am all too well aware of the influence religious dogma has over most aspects of law in the United States. Having said that, I cannot hold today’s Christians accountable for the Inquisition, as they were not there. Hopefully most of today’s Christians have learned some lessons from studying historical events significant to their faith, such as the Crusades and the Inquisition; it’s a shame George W. Bush is not one of them.
“No one needs to read a bunch of hateful crap,”
Thats right Leland. If I want to read some hateful crap I’ll go check out the Koran at the library.
Well, maybe I got a little too sarcastic… I applaud Khalid, and his very articulate and educated approach. I know there are plenty of Muslims who do not in any way associate with what we see in the news every night. But, what we see is gonna scare us all–who can blame us?
Rabbit, there is something called due diligence. Perhaps if people from both side of the divide can take some time to reach out to the “other”, it will open up flood-gates of goodwill and cooperation.
“In December, CAIR-MN met with more than thirty representatives of the Muslim Student Association and the Somali Student Association, as well as a representative from the Normandale student government.”
alright , so we have an organization thats an unidicted co-conspirator with terrorist organizations,that was formed by the muslim brotherhood. together with a so-called student organization , that also happened to be formed by the muslim brotherhood, a bunch of recently immigrated somalis and some useful idiots from the school admin all get together and claim nothing anti woman, anti-sematic here.
LOLOL khalid, your almost like casper, your so transparent. you and your brethren really have to try harder.
“Perhaps if people from both side of the divide can take some time to reach out to the “other”,”
When the reaching out is so onesided as it is now its no wonder we bomb them.
Rabbit,
I appreciate your comment and I do not blame anyone for feeling afraid. If I didn’t know that so much was misleading and wrong, I’d be afraid too.
While I know that my style might not sit well with some, I don’t apologize for it. I grew up in America and have dealt with ignorance and hatred all of my life. It’s sad, but a comment I hear often from American non-Muslims after they get to know me is that I’m “nothing like they initially imagined”. They go on to explain that they had negative perceptions which were dispelled once they got to know me.
I know the same thing is often said about Islam. In fact, many people who study it out of a sincere attempt to learn about it end up becoming Muslim. You’d be surprised by how many blonde-haired, blue-eyed Americans have embraced Islam.
And I’m not talking about studying Islam by having someone with an agenda who is non-muslim teach you, I’m talking about learning it the way any reasonable person would learn about any subject. Would you study physics by asking an English professor to teach it to you? Of course not! But this is basically what people are doing when seeking out information about Islam. They read the work of non-Muslims who have a clear bias against Islam and Muslims.
No offense, but only a fool would do that.
G.S.A.H.A., I guess the extremists from the “other” side say exactly what you are saying now.
‘flood-gates of goodwill and cooperation’
I wish. The non-extremists can have all the goodwill for two lifetimes–but terrorists don’t have goodwill. That’s the problem. Even if the terrorists are a small minority of Muslims, the terrorists are running the show–because they can!
has the word “brethren” replaced the word “ilk”?
stevek, you are not impressing anyone with your less than civilized behavior. Why do you want to bring bad-repute to the civilized West by these less than civil exchanges?
Mr. G, The point I was going to eventually make, is just because Martin Luther had his hateful, anti-Semitic moments, that does not mean all protestant Christians are anti-Semites.
I was going to equate Luther’s statements to the excesses of some Muslims.
I don’t want to do it now, because I don’t want to hear or read anymore anti-Semitic statements today. Frankly, the post referring to Jews as certain animals is very upsetting to me.
Stevek,
Did you actually read the entire thing? The other non-Islamic organizations I mentioned were involved sport. The Archdiocese of St. Paul even read the conclusions and agreed with them. Or is he a Muslim apologist too?
Rabbit, don’t lose hope. Take that first step … Fear mongers like KK and her altar egos on the “other” side does not like common people like you and me to understand each other. There are some powerful interests that benefit from keeping the politics of fear alive. We gotta raise ourselves above these machinations.
truthseeker1001,
Our bombing of the terrorist muslim exstremists are a measured response to thier indescriminate killings of civilians.
Rabbit, better retract that Ford claim….remember the Pinto??
“Why do you want to bring bad-repute to the civilized West by these less than civil exchanges?”
truth denyer, my old, old friend, so glad to read you again. thank you so much for bestowing upon me the role of representating the civilized west. i humbly accept your appointment and will work hard to live up to all your expectations.
“has the word “brethren” replaced the word “ilk”?”
i have to mix it up once in awhile G
I know there are plenty of Muslims who do not in any way associate with what we see in the news every night. But, what we see is gonna scare us all–who can blame us?
the pitbull quandry! if the media only mentions (group/animal) in a negative context, the population will think that all examples of (group/animal) are inherently(sp) evil.
russians and doberman pinchers just aren’t scary anymore, for some reason. new boogeymen for the new millenium.
also, bomb saudi arabia.
“The Archdiocese of St. Paul even read the conclusions and agreed with them. Or is he a Muslim apologist too?”
frankly sport , your buffoonery is starting to bore me. this will be my last post to you because frankly(again) you speak not of which you know. ya got dat sporto. now go learn some french from your spanish teacher some more there sport.
SteveK, how are things in Florida? Haven’t seen your buddy Vince1973 in a while.
“SteveK, how are things in Florida? Haven’t seen your buddy Vince1973 in a while. ”
im sorry to say its sunny and 82 degrees today. although it so cold last night , i was thinking about putting on a wind breaker. i havent ead him since the last few times you and i conversed. a likeable kid i suppose, but between you and he he seemed to much like a hot-head.
Who is responsible for monitoring this “school”? The state or the local school board?
Hope he is at peace with himself and those around him. Life is too short to hate. Hate only consumes the person who has it in him. It solves nothing.
JonR, I guess the buck stops with the state. Either way, something as drastic as KK’s claims could not have escaped the local school board or the state’s attention.
truthseeker1001– Thanks for trying, I cooperate with Muslims every day. But we cannot work with terrorists.
GypsyBiker, I haven’t laughed that hard for a while! Gawd, you’re right!
“Hate only consumes the person who has it in him. It solves nothing.”
im sure your right. i hope hes more more like my friend le8 and myself. we have both decided we like ourselves and parlay that like for ourselves on to our fellow posters and citizens of the world.
Rabbit, that’s the way to go buddy! Who talked about working with terrorists?
Mr Khalid, I would like to see more Muslim people as regular contributors to Ms. Katherine’s blog. Do you think this would be a good idea? How could this be accomplished? I think a better balance of opinions could lead to a higher level of tolerance and understanding among people. Maybe Ms. Katherine’s blog could undergo a metamorphosis. I am excited about the possibilities.
Khalid, where did you go man? The discussions were just getting so civil and understanding and you had to leave?
leland8, Khalid was pretty eloquent no doubt!
Does anyone know if KK reads these entries? I wish she would read these entries and get educated a bit so that she does not have to churn out half-truths.
“Does anyone know if KK reads these entries?”
Oh yeah and she censores out some too.
G.S.A.H.A. You are funny man! Good one.
Mr stevek, One must do more than just like one’s self. One must also love others. That means everyone. That, of course, is quite difficult for a fascist. Even for a certain fascist I love.
“Even for a certain fascist I love”
In a Barney, the purple dinosaur, sort of way.
“In a Barney, the purple dinosaur, sort of way.”
Thanks Leland for clarifying that. I was going for the bucket.
G.S.A.H.A, looks like KK is busy censoring posts now LOL! There are no updates in a while. Time to go home now?
“That, of course, is quite difficult for a fascist. Even for a certain fascist I love. ”
once again le, i find myself somewhat disapointed that my messages of love, inclusion and tolerance had not been received in the spirit in which it was given. it is frustrating for me to work so hard to try to join my brothers from all walks of life, from all areas of the globe together, only to see my hard work either misunderstood or intentionally twisted by bigots. just because my words may have taken forms at times that normally mean one thing. i expect you and all my critics to suspend logic and reasoning and believe after i whine and conjole and threaten and act like a victim, that my words shouldnt mean what they say and you should believe me when i tell you that i love you all.
“Time to go home now?”
Not yet. The Tiny Litess show is about to begin.
“Our bombing of the terrorist muslim exstremists are a measured response to thier indescriminate killings of civilians.”
Which “indiscriminate killings of civilians” are you talking about? 9/11? That can’t be right since 9/11 was pulled off by Saudi extremists, and we “bombed” Iraq, which had been waging their own war against Muslim extremists through our Proxy, Saddam.
“Even if the terrorists are a small minority of Muslims, the terrorists are running the show–because they can!”
That will happen when you invade a country and then disband their military, police, and political infrastructures.
Khalid,
Isn’t it true that the leaders of CAIR would like to see our Constitution done away with and have us controlled by strict Sharia law, thereby making us The Islamic States of America?
Hey, what do you think of all these other hot spots around the world where there is lots of violence and literally millions of lives have been lost in the most gruesome way imaginable in the past few years?
- Kenya
- Congo
- Rawanda
- Burma/Manyamar
- Columbia
- Nepal
- South Africa
- Zimbabwe
- Sri Lanka
- Republic of Georgia
- Liberia
None of these areas had any Muslims involved in the conflict.
In some of these conflicts people used nationalism, tribalism, religion and what not. So I guess the bottom line is that people will use any excuse to reach their own goals. We gotta look at this whole lot of violence in a more generic level to understand the undercurrents and find solutions.
“Which “indiscriminate killings of civilians” are you talking about”
All of them. Everywhere. Even in Iraq. 9/11 was a terrorist attack. But I forgot you’re one of those apologists for you country and race.
truthseeker1001,
Most of the violence worldwide is committed by Mauslims.
truthseeker1001,
Most of the violence worldwide is committed by Muslims.
“- Kenya
- Congo
- Rawanda
- Burma/Manyamar
- Columbia
- Nepal
- South Africa
- Zimbabwe
- Sri Lanka
- Republic of Georgia
- Liberia”
Let em kill each other as long as they confine it to within thier borders.
Mr sport (stevek), What do you do you have to say about Mr. 1001’s list?
d2st: search for “patterns of global terrorism” report by the state department on Google. You will know where and who commits most of the terrorism. Be sure to read all the reports from 1982 onwards. Happy reading.
“Let em kill each other…”
Mr G, I am sorry, you must express more concern for your fellow man. I reject your statement as totally unacceptable. You must try again.
“All of them. Everywhere. Even in Iraq. 9/11 was a terrorist attack. But I forgot you’re one of those apologists for you country and race.”
They weren’t in Iraq, and we never did make a serious effort to apprehend those responsible for 9/11 (and they STILL enjoy their freedom to this day). But I forgot you’re one of those bed wetting frightened by your own shadow neanderthals who gets off on seeing innocents killed (as long as we’re doing the killing or it’s confined to within their borders). You’re an embarrassment to our country’s ideals, your race, and your gender.
“Mr G, I am sorry, you must express more concern for your fellow man. I reject your statement as totally unacceptable. You must try again.”
Mr. Leland,
Think of the foreign aid tax dollars we could save if there were less people in these welfare states to support.
I say ship em a boat load of machetes and let have it.
truthseeker1001: search for a site called The Religion of Peace and let me know what you think. Happy reading!
“But I forgot you’re one of those bed wetting frightened by your own shadow neanderthals who gets off on seeing innocents killed (as long as we’re doing the killing or it’s confined to within their borders). You’re an embarrassment to our country’s ideals, your race, and your gender.”
I’m rubber, your glue
AAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHhhahaahhahahahahHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHaa
Mr G, I think Mr. Dan called you a neanderthal.
Are you a neanderthal?
d2st: I trust the state department reports more than I trust other sites. I am giving you a credible source.
Down on your knees Dan,
You make me laugh. Keep up the good work. Whew, hillarious.
“Mr G, I think Mr. Dan called you a neanderthal.”
No offense to neanderthals.
“Mr G, I think Mr. Dan called you a neanderthal.
Are you a neanderthal?”
Sure, why not. I’m a hairy Knuckle dragging neanderthal. An Apeman. A Yeti. Heck, lets throw in Sasquatch too. I’m an earth first, we’ll log the other planets later Neanderthal. Hee Haw.
Mr G, When are you going to meet with Khalid and me, for coffee?
Are your palms sweaty and your voice slightly rising, sport? No more false web bravado for you, sport.
Khalid says: “I appreciate your comment and I do not blame anyone for feeling afraid.”
Hey Pal there are a hundred thousand Americans in Iraq that I can assure you are NOT AFRAID. And I can reassure more that there about 200 million others here that sure as hell aren’t AFRAID.
Don’t kid yourself the only people afraid in this country are the Fruitcakes that live near the tall buildings. Bring it out to the country Khalid and I’ll put my money on the American Billy Bob
“Are your palms sweaty and your voice slightly rising, sport? No more false web bravado for you, sport.”
“His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
There’s vomit on his sweater already, mom’s spaghetti
He’s nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgettin
What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
He opens his mouth, but the words won’t come out
He’s choking, how everybody’s joking now
The clock’s run out, time’s up over, bloah!
Snap back to reality, Oh there goes gravity
Oh, there goes Rabbit, he choked
He’s so mad, but he won’t give up that
Easy, no
He won’t have it , he knows his whole back’s to these ropes
It don’t matter, he’s dope
He knows that, but he’s broke
He’s so stagnant that he knows
When he goes back to his mobile home, that’s when it’s
Back to the lab again yo
This this whole rhapsody
He better go capture this moment and hope it don’t pass him”
This is just an observation, but it looks to me that the enlightened are becoming a stronger influence on Ms Katherine’s blog, and the neanderthals are starting to lose their grip.
“The soul’s escaping, through this hole that it’s gaping
This world is mine for the taking
Make me king, as we move toward a, new world order”
“This is just an observation, but it looks to me that the enlightened are becoming a stronger influence on Ms Katherine’s blog, and the neanderthals are starting to lose their grip.”
well just you wait until i make another virginal sacrifice then this blog will be mine once again. MINE !! MINE!!!! MINE !!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
vaginal sacrifice?
“vaginal sacrifice?”
for any woman who was stupid enough to sleep with me it might have been.
if you must know G, by day im a mild mannered white collar professional, with all the trappings of success, spending my spare moments trying to produce peace and harmony amongst by brothers and sisters.
however, by night, i belong to a bloodthirsty cult that sacrifices virgins to the dark lord.
i hope you dont hold that against me.
Tiny,
Were you holding your tiny log while trying to convince me of how brave you are?
“i hope you dont hold that against me.”
not even if you said I have a beautiful body would I hold it against you.
Khalid ?
I’m not buyin’ it. Fool me once, something something. Fool me twice I’m a Dumb@ss.
Or something like that.
“not even if you said I have a beautiful body would I hold it against you.”
what if i offered to slobber all over your toes ??
Kahlid,
will you answer my 1:31 post please?
“No more games, I’ma change what you call rage
Tear this mf’ing roof off like 2 dogs caged
I was playing in the beginning, the mood all changed
I been chewed up and spit out and booed off stage
But I kept rhyming and stepwritin the next cypher”
“Were you holding your tiny log while trying to convince me of how brave you are?”
I like Mr litess, so I shouldn’t laugh, but that is funny.
so ahh G, whatcha wearin ???
Nothin, from the waist down.
gotta go.
Adios Sombreros.
Mr stevek, Are you in the hooch again?
hmmmm , hey your not one of those people who are severed at the torso and move around on their hands are you ??? and if not are you a male neandrathal or female ??? i could probably deal with the hair if your the latter but if your the former then my mental image wouldnt be pleasing LOL
truthseeker1001,
Did you know that Islamic terrorists have carried out more than 10,699 deadly terror attacks since 9-11?
“Mr stevek, Are you in the hooch again?”
mr le. do you mean like on the hooch ?? inferring that i am drinking and im sure the question would include am i under the influence on any type of mind altering substance ???
no. this is just how your lovable fascist is naturally. i dont like drinking and im not a drug user. sorry , i dont have any excuses : )
Khalid, now I understand why you consider yourself an enlightened Muslim. You were “raised in America”. Your comments are really irrelevant to the whole discussion because of your rosey outlook. Apparently you neither understand this fearsome Islam that perpetrated 9/11 or the pluralistic America that now is forced to be more diligent about monitoring the exact whereabouts of our newest Trojan Horse! I think your outlook might be changed after living a year in Iran or Syria and tasting the Islam your fellow non-Muslim Americans more realistically assess! By the way, which Muslim nation in the world best exemplifies the kind of Islam you so devotedly defend?
Okay, Mr stevek, just checking.
letsnotpretend says:
“Apparently you neither understand this fearsome Islam that perpetrated 9/11 or the pluralistic America that now is forced to be more diligent about monitoring the exact whereabouts of our newest Trojan Horse!”
Khalid,
Four British police officers have just been discovered to be Al-Qaida agents in London. This kind of stuff is more common than people think, so I think it’s wise not to blindly let the liberal multiculteralist left do as they please.
how about closer to home dare ?? remember those 2 florida students caught with pipe bombs in their car ?? you know the ones cair defended as just silly kids ???
“Mohamed is originally from Kuwait and completed his undergrad education in Cairo, according to the Tampa newspaper. He has been at USF since January and was registered for six hours during summer session, the spokesman told the paper.
Megahed, originally from Egpyt, has been enrolled at USF since 2004 and had not declared a major. He was registered for three hours this fall, according to the newspaper.”
wow two muslim students from overseas. one registered for 6 hours of classes this semester , the other registered for 3. sounds like some serious studying going on.
CAIR man says:
Ahmed Bedier, executive director of the Tampa chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a civil rights organization for Muslims, said family members have told him they think the materials were leftover fireworks Megahed kept in his trunk since July 4.
“Both of them are really naïve kids,” Bedier said.”
thats was last year. now what is the CAIR man saying ???
WND Exclusive
CAIR backs off support for terror suspects
Originally charged ‘racial profiling’ in case of 2 students arrested in S.C.
Posted: January 17, 2008
1:00 am Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com
Youssef Megahed and Ahmed Mohamed
TAMPA, Fla. ? The Council on American-Islamic Relations has backed off on its defense of two Muslim college students caught driving near a sensitive U.S. Navy base with explosives and a how-to video on bomb making.
Last August, when police in South Carolina arrested University of South Florida students Ahmed Mohamed and Youssef Megahed for possession of four pipe bombs and a homemade video on how to make detonators for improvised explosive devices, CAIR sprang to the students’ defense.
Now, the Washington, D.C.-based Muslim civil rights group is not so sure the boys are innocent.
Ahmed Bedier, executive director of CAIR’s Tampa, Fla., office, told WND it’s possible the two Egyptian engineering students were up to no good and they possibly were not just carrying fireworks to the beach, as they claimed.
“I’ve never said that these people were innocent, or that we were providing any kind of support for them,” Bedier told WND. “If they did anything wrong they should be punished.”
LOLOLOL silly jihadists
even the american islamic forum for democracy writes:
American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD) founder Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser writes:
Wednesday’s conviction of Hassan Abujihaad should serve as a warning sign to the lethality and danger to our security from political Islam (Islamism). Islamism is an ideological clear and present danger to our security. Until we figure this out and finally begin the debate within the Muslim community about how to separate religion and politics within the Islamic consciousness, there will be many more traitorous Abujihaads produced out of the political grievance mills which many American mosques and American Islamist organizations have become.
more from our friend mr bedier about those silly naive kids:
According to NewsPress.com, Ahmed Bedier, of CAIR has said “Definitely this is not related to terrorism. Had these been two good ol’ boys from South Carolina driving through and speeding — and even if they did have some fireworks — nobody would have been arrested.”
So Khalid. Where Ya lookin’ at a brick wall or a set of bars when you where facing Mecca?
Had these been two good ol’ boys from South Carolina driving through and speeding — and even if they did have some fireworks — nobody would have been arrested.”
The good ol’ boys I know are way to smart (and it’s one of the few things that they do know) to do anything like that near a military base.
stevek says:
“how about closer to home dare ?? ”
How about Mohamm*d Warsame, the Muslim Somali in Minneapolis who is currently being held for having ties to Al-Qaida.
I’m a little concerned about the racism I read in this column, but notwithstanding KK’s question put before us, this charter school by all accounts is a religious school and therefore cannot be supported by taxpayer dollars. Charter schools require corporate, private sponsorship, so the sponsorship by the California “church entity” would have and should have been a red flag to the charter reviewing board and they should have denied this Muslim school its charter vis a vis its religious foundation. Students of diversity, among them Somalis and other people seeking asylum in the U.S., need more than anything to assimilate into our culture and nothing can do that better than education in the traditional American system. When we begin to open schools solely for the benefit of students who don’t speak English and who don’t or won’t assimilate into American culture, we embark on the slippery slope of exclusion, rather than inclusion. I tutor Somali students and they tell me how difficult our language is. And I say “yes” it is very difficult to learn our language. I ask them, with your children, to speak English only at home so you will become comfortable with the language– verbal, written, in print, and spoken. It’s very hard. But it’s possible. And we need to educate our immigrant population in English so that they assimilate sooner, not later, into our language and culture. They will thank us for this later.
“How about Mohamm*d Warsame, the Muslim Somali in Minneapolis who is currently being held for having ties to Al-Qaida. ”
it couldnt be dare. dont you know the us has magical borders that keep out any of those hate filled muslims and only let the peaceful ones in ???
jstroeve,
Good points. I do think that liberal multiculteralists consider “assimilation” a nasty word though.
Khalid says:
March 10th, 2008 at 1:04 am
Trina321,
You expressed great concern about legal and illegal immigrants choosing to not learn English. I agree with you that people should learn the English language if they’re going to live here.
Perhaps you can share with us your personal story of why you have chosen to not learn English. While your writing is filled with poor grammar and English in general, I congratulate you for trying to learn. You obviously are speaking from experience when you say that not learning English can create problems. What types of problems have you had to deal with due to your own lack of knowledge of the English language? Please share. If you need help with the writing, please let me know.
Now THIS is about as condescending and conceited a post as I’ve seen from anyone who posts here. Khalid, do you really think you are one who never errs? Sickening.
Khalid says:
March 10th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Leland8,
Thanks for your comments. They are appreciated. If you peel through the layers, you will find a bit of wisdom even in what you refer to as my less friendly blogs. And I am definitely sticking to the issues.
Summary: “Even when I’m being a complete a-hole, you can learn from me because my intellect is SO superior to yours.”
That will happen when you invade a country and then disband their military, police, and political infrastructures.
That will happen when you allow a certain religious cult in and fund their schools.
Again, I highly recommend reading “Because They Hate” By Brigitte Gabriel. I wonder if Imam Khalid has read this????
tanks Z snaps Khalid. You go girl
Are taxpayers footing the bill? They are if this article is true.
“I’m a little concerned about the racism I’ve read in this column.”
Yes, there is racism here. Also, xenophobia, and expressions of jingoism, fascism, imperialism, religious bigotry, and general all around intolerance.
There is also homophobia (I am ashamed to say I have contributed) and also sexism (I have also contributed heavily to this, but remain largely unrepentant).
There is also a lot of bickering, fighting, hostility, name calling, and put downs.
That said, still all in all, we are pretty nice people.
“…homophobia…sexism…also a lot of bickering, fighting, hostility, name calling, and put downs.”
My gosh! That’s exactly like all the candidate debates!
I wonder which one of us gets to be called ‘Monster?’
Well, thank you for the kind words from some of you defending the attack by Khalid on my English and grammar. I obviously did learn English, albeit not up to Khalid’s standards, otherwise it would have been babble in another language that Americans couldn’t read.
Khalid, someone pointed out that you simply form your rebuttals with insults to person(s) or entities, without actually answering questions put forth.
Khalid, could you go back to my original post - I believe you did not answer any of questions #1 through #4.
And you don’t need to try to insult my lower extremeties in your responses (note: not “answers”, just responses).
And, in a scholarly way, would you care to comment on the last part of my original post, wherein I stated if immigrants come to this country, it should be to become a part of the U.S., not a SEPARATE part of the U.S.?
Well, thank you for the kind words from some of you defending the attack by Khalid on my English and grammar. I obviously did learn English, albeit not up to Khalid’s standards, otherwise it would have been babble in another language that Americans couldn’t read.
Khalid, someone pointed out that you simply form your rebuttals with insults to person(s) or entities, without actually answering questions put forth.
Khalid, could you go back to my original post - I believe you did not answer any of questions #1 through #4.
And you don’t need to try to insult my lower extremeties in your responses (note: not “answers”, just responses).
And, in a scholarly way, would you care to comment on the last part of my original post, wherein I stated if immigrants come to this country, it should be to become a part of the U.S., not a SEPARATE part of the U.S.?
Some have mentioned the terrorist attacks of 9/11, including offering up various defenses of foreign groups, and attacking some Americans for our now-perceived fear of further, unwarranted but planned-to-the-smallest-detail violent killings here.
When we in the U.S. refer to “The Flying Nun” - we don’t have to run and take cover - it’s not about any Christian performing violence and kiling!
It was mentioned that having a Muslim President would balance the scales. I truly do not understand this logic. Let’s keep this to a civilized discussion - I truly don’t see how the United States would be sadly lacking strong, ethical and educated leadership of the president were to be something other than Muslim. Are we saying Muslims are taking over the U.S. as the majority and therefore should be represented as such?
Also, to you Khalid:
You mentioned in one of your postings that you did indeed visit the school in question from KK’s article. Why were you given access, and KK was not? I could POSSIBLY understand how the school may not want to provide a formal interview on the spot (have to run it by their legal counsel first)? But why wasn’t KK allowed to tour the school as a public citizen?
Does Obama actually refuse to wear a flag pin on his lapel? If so, why?
Khalid,
I have been a student of Islam for over a decade.
Care for me to share some peaceful quotes from the Qur’an? How about Qur’an 47:4? Or, 98:6? I really like Qur’an 8:60.
aklemz says, on March 9 state:
Okay, I’ll just say it:
The “problem” of an Islamic run school in Minnesota was made possible by…and other attempts to erode secular public education.”
So, Aklemz, YOU DO ADMIT THIS IS AN ISLAMIC RUN SCHOOL, not just another public school? You said it; you can’t take it back!
Mr. Rabbit, When I was getting into the Protestant Christian thing earlier, I am glad you stopped me. I remember your post from a few months ago, about no recent drive by lutefiskings. Thanks for saving me again from my excesses. I need to have you always around.
bdaniel367 had mentioned that if the after school classes are optional at the Islamic school in question, how is that any different than students using the public school for before/after school Bible studies.
I agree, that’s a great question. From some of the original quotes I read, I interpreted the 3:30 p.m. “after school” activities to actually be considered an expectation as part of their day, not optional. And on only extremely rare occasion in the city I live in, am I aware that the public schools are allowing Bible study to take place. The local high school has about 20+ optional after school activities offered; none mention Bible study. Just sayin…
I still believe people of very diverse backgrounds and religions can live together in peace. I think that is the strength of America. America will continue prove this to be possible.
Intolerance and hatred must be overcome. I am getting over my fear of dangerous Lutherans. We must all work to overcome our fears.
Leland,
I think this diversity thing is way over rated. What is much more important is that immigrants all assimilate and become good Americans, but that doesn’t happen with a large percentage of Muslims. How can it be good for America to import a large group of people who not only would like to see our Contitution done away with and have us all run by strict Sharia law, but many could be terror risks.
Can someone please tell me why we are importing so many Somali’s? How many more examples of culture clash do we have to hear? The worst part is that they come to Minnesota by the thousands to cash in on our welfare system. No wonder the democrats just imposed the largest tax increase in Minnesota history on us.
Oh, no, Mr8, I was not trying to stop you, necessarily… I do recognize that some people do terrible things, and then say “God told me” or some crapola like that. And it hasn’t always been Islam–that I totally agree with.
Currently, it just seems that the terrorists are really running the show, and piling up the bodies. And they are not restricted to one geographic area. They are everywhere, and they don’t care who they kill as long as it’s someone not directly in their own group. When Bush said, “We will not negotiate with terrorists” that was one of the few intelligent statements he’s made!
I have to clarify: The terrorists don’t even care about sparing their OWN lives, too–in fact they teach their young that they SHOULD die. How can we work with that?
jstroeve says:”I’m a little concerned about the racism I read in this column”
I’m a little concerned about your political correctness, and I’m real concerned about your naivety.
“The local high school has about 20+ optional after school activities offered; none mention Bible study. Just sayin…”
Good point worth sayin for sure.
“No wonder the democrats just imposed the largest tax increase in Minnesota history on us.”
Its not just the immigrants that are using up our taxes. Add the wasteful spending on pet projects that benefit only a small group. Bike Paths and Light Rail and bike paths and light rail and bike paths and light rail and bike paths and light rail. I could go on and on and on and on.
philthy_sanchez, you might wanna go over to the RoadGuy blog to debate that…
I have never seen a terrorist on a bicycle. Most bike riders and rail riders are doing you a favor by getting off the freeways.
“Most bike riders and rail riders are doing you a favor by getting off the freeways.”
No, Not really. When I have to pay more taxes to fund thier travel options and pay more vehicle maintenance costs due to poor road conditions (pot holes+) not being fixed and still must deal with bicyclists and pedestrians daily I come out with a net loss to my pocket book and patience.
philth, no one ‘likes’ paying taxes, especially for something they don’t use. Understandable. Most bike/bus/train riders pay their share, too, thru property taxes, income tax, etc. etc.
Some people view the alternative transport folks as ‘un-American.’ That’s the biggest myth. While our youngest adults are in the desert getting shot at, we here at home have it easy. We all gotta pitch in a little–doesn’t matter whether it’s saving a gallon of gas or helping a neighbor, etc…
rabbit,
whats your point.
My point is we keep raising taxes to maintain an unmanagable standard of fluff living when there are more pressing needs. The citizens are asked to sacrifice constantly more and more income for these projects and then lectured for not saving or planning for the future. I’m not anti tax just anti waste and anti government that expects us to tighten our belts as they loosen thiers.
“Some people view the alternative transport folks as ‘un-American.’”
I don’t know who these people are
My point is that I agree, it is frustrating when our taxes are used for things we don’t agree with.
I would like to see a crackdown on the street thugs, instead of seeing my taxes pay for some big-wig’s limo or his golden toilet seat.
All we can do is vote, and contact the leaders, to change what they are doing.
We pay ‘em, so that makes us their boss!
“We pay ‘em, so that makes us their boss!”
Don’t you hate it when your employees don’t stay within budget, are always asking for more money to do thier job, then you catch them out spending it on non-essential items?
Rabbit,
You must live in a nasty part of the city to be dealing with crime and punk thugs all the time. Just an observation
Actually, G, I live in a narrow sorta-safe zone in between some rough spots. What I have observed is that places that were once crime-free are now overtaken.
But I resent those who complain about people that really can’t hurt you, and then just gloss over the real threats…
I have observed both sides do this–conservatives and liberals.
Since we are currently talking about taxes -
I was wondering why it is the educational system that has to pay heavily to provide programs for varying levels of special education. I’m not against “special ed” students, but from what I have seen at the local public schools, who are required to leave no child behind, that many of the duties performed by educational staff seem to fall more in the line of medical needs, or in reverse, needs that are a direct result of various medical impairments. When I see average classroom sizes of 35-40 students with one teacher and then classes such as an MSMI program having a ratio of about 4 to 1, it’s really frustrating. Thus the school can proudly state an overall class ratio of a lower number because they include the special ed ratio in their overall numbers. I have been told numerous times by the teachers who have the 35-40 students, that they don’t actually have any time DURING CLASS to help individual students with questions, the student needs to make a special effort to come before or after school (i.e. on their own time to try to receive educational instruction) and at the same time watch a paraprofessional spend one on one time with a special needs student outside at recess so that they can play kickball without having a meltdown, something just doesn’t seem right. Why can’t or why don’t the medical/insurance companies have to foot any of the bill to help provide for the physical needs of special ed?
That is one reason I am frustrated with the large amount of immigrant populations coming to the U.S., choosing not to learn English, instead separating themselves into subcategories, whether ethnic or religious; many times both of those being inner-twined. Then further abusing our tax system and our welfare system by applying for and continually receiving free medical care, welfare, subsidized housing, free or reduced school lunches, free use of interpreters EVEN AT MEDICAL APPOINTMENTS, AS WITNESSED BY A RELATIVE WHO HAD STAFF PHYSICAL THERAPY STAFF EXPLAIN IT WAS REQUIRED THE CLINIC DO SO. And keeping all the illegals here only compounds the problems.
Then to hear about the publicly funded Islamic school just burns me further. No, society will never be perfect, nor will the laws or sytems ever make everybody happy, but I believe there is always room for improvement, which won’t occur without voices speaking out, including KK’s.
Trina321,
You make a very good point. I had never thought of it that way. My guess that if the insurance companies did foot the bill there would be alot of claim denials. The other thing is how many parents of these children actually have insurance or good insurance that covers all the needs of these children. With out tax breaks and other public funding the parents most likly carry the brunt of the medical costs that the insurance companies won’t pay past the deductible and premeum limits.
March 15th update.
Please note the letter today from Kevin Featherley, the source of Kersten’s commentary.
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/16690961.html
Featherley suggests Kersten got it all wrong. Should we be surprised that Kersten’s Islamophobia gets in the way of the facts?
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Katherine Kersten writes a weekly column for the Star Tribune's Sunday Opinion Exchange section. The column covers a broad range of topics reflecting her experiences and interests.
In this blog, she will address many of the same issues, albeit in quicker, less formal fashion, along with pointing readers to other sources of interesting online commentary and coverage.
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